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Monday, October 08, 2012

TUMEKE EXCLUSIVE: Greens launched quantitative easing just before Labour were planning to - how does Labour retake economic initiative?

The Labour Party have just been caught out again by the far quicker Green Party. Labour were quietly discussing quantitative easing at the very top of the Party, the Greens have jumped the shark by launching the debate yesterday on Q+A and have claimed their alternative economic policy spurs once again.

Labour need an economic alternative, Cunliffe has been attempting this and the Greens stealing the agenda again helps draw in those left progressive votes that see the rising inequality as a reason to stop being politically apathetic and vote in 2014.

How does Labour retake the economic initiative? I joked when Labour took MANA's feed the kids policy that they should also take MANA's financial transaction tax.

If we want to lower our currency, a financial transaction tax would dampen speculation while generating desperately needed tax revenue from a corporate segment of the economy who hire battalions of accountants to minimize their tax liability.

It would tackle those who avoid tax that 60minutes exposed on Sunday.

Labour are also thinking about a financial transaction tax. David Parker in his interview with Selwyn Manning last week on Triangle TV didn't write the idea off.

A Financial Transaction tax is a radical enough idea that does more to genuinely reshape the economic structure to tackle inequality and poverty than any other single thing Labour could do.

It would also leap frog the Greens.



At 8/10/12 8:04 am, Blogger Nitrium said...

The Q+A interview yesterday was more like a seance, with Russel Norman channelling Ben Bernanke uttering the biggest amount of economic nonsense I've ever heard from a member parliament. The dude is WAY over his head in regards to economic policy, and in fact is a DANGER to our economy. It is trivial to PROVE QE does NOT lead to prosperity, and leads ONLY to inflation which naturally has the greatest impact on the most vulnerable (who ironically The Greens purport to care about!).
The interviewer yesterday was waffling on about prices of goods at the Warehouse, as if shopping for cheap Chinese garbage at the Warehouse was of utmost concern to everyone.
What he should have said, was that QE leads to inflation in EVERYTHING! Including food, energy (electricity and fuel) and home(--> rent) prices (what, you don't think NZ savers are going to keep their cash in the bank while Russel inflates its purchasing power away do you?). You think the poor are impoverished now, what do you think it will be like when the things you need to SURVIVE increase 10% (or more) in price?
Your proposed financial transaction tax is a far, far, more responsible course of action.
The cornerstone of any believable economy should be sound money. Russel Norman = FAIL.

At 8/10/12 9:24 am, Blogger RedFred said...

@ Nitrium the brown stinky stuff is dribbling out of your finger tips.

Firsty; you need to educate yourself on our fractional banking system, banks print money! Why does Key not want to do it? Because closer oversight and reporting of Banks activities would be required. Captain Bank of America Key would never allow this.

The difference between what the Greens are proposing and what US Fed has been doing is immense.

The Greens are proposing the government lending itself money to build and buy productive assets. Rebuild Christchurch and buy some sound foreign assets to stock the disaster fund. The probability is this will lower the excahnge rate.

What is the risk? Inflation? Horseshit; because we are going to be borrowing money to do these things anyway. Ironically the borrowing will be from a Government/country that has been printing the money to lend.

The Greens policy is smart and conservative.

At 8/10/12 11:27 am, Blogger Nitrium said...

I have highlighted more than a few times right here that deficit spending leads directly to inflation (more money chasing the same amount of goods), which is why I am a very strong advocate of a BALANCED budget. You cannot sustainably spend more than you earn. You can't do it and the Government can't do it for the same reason.

Fractional reserve banking is EXACTLY the same as counterfeiting money, and is thus of course also inflationary.

You (and Russel) obviously think we need even MORE inflation with QE. Once you let the money printing genie out of the bottle there is no putting it back. Politicians do not have the discipline required. Witness the US, that now has OPEN-ENDED QE.

No one ever seems to ask why fuel and energy prices are at an all time high, while crude oil and coal prices most definitely are not. Why was petrol CHEAPER in 2008 when crude oil was over $140 a barrel and the NZD was trading at pretty much where it is now?

Zimbabwe is not a model for wealth creation. Mathematically it MUST be a zero-sum game. You can't print (or borrow) your way to prosperity. Russel Norman SHOULD know better.

At 8/10/12 11:35 am, Blogger Chris Trotter said...

It is extraordinary, Bomber, the way the Greens have consistently outdistanced Labour when it comes to economic policy.

Strangely, the two parties' views are politically quite congruent, it's just that Labour lacks the leadership to capitalise politically on its rejection of 1980s monetarist orthodoxy.

In Opposition a certain amount of boldness is required, and boldness is what Shearer and his followers lack.

The same can not be said of Russel Norman.

At 8/10/12 11:36 am, Blogger LiberalLeftie said...

So your saying that the quality Green Party policy is now in decline, the QE policy being the cause of this? Because if not, then I have serious concerns for you as you clearly have know idea what "jumping the shark" means

At 8/10/12 11:51 am, Blogger Chris Trotter said...

Nitrium, I suggest you investigate the phenomenon of deflation, and its effects on a nation's economic health.

Mild inflation (0-5% pa) is good for everyone except the rentier. It was the deliberate policy of the US Government for the 30 years following World War II - the years we now look back on as the most prosperous in recent times.

What destroyed the policy's efficacy was President Johnson's attempt to construct the Great Society, wage the War on Poverty AND keep half-a-million soldiers in Vietnam simultaneously.

Bush Jnr caused similar havoc by cutting taxes and invading Iraq. (Although, to be fair, his own fiscal errors were compounded by Greenspan's Federal Reserve which deliberately facilitated the most sustained and reckless period of financial speculation in history.)

Your balanced budget fetish is what causes recessions to turn into depressions, Nitrium. Running a modern economy is NOT the same as balancing your cheque-book.

At 9/10/12 10:07 am, Blogger Frank said...


ON FB, criticism of the Green's suggestion for QE is coming from both directions;

1. The rightwing who argue for "monetary orthodoxy" (and coincidentally, big profits for currency speculators)

2. The anarchist/left who argue that all money is evil and printing $2 billion is akin to creating 2 billion bits of more evil. So they oppose QE on that basis. (and coincidentally de facto support ongoing big profits for currency speculators)

Me, I'm a naive bugger that sees 40,000 jobs gone; currency speculators leeching of our Dollar like vast parasites; and New Zealanders losing out.

At 9/10/12 10:09 am, Blogger Frank said...

"Zimbabwe is not a model for wealth creation. "

From now on, mention of Zimbabwe is the same as equating National's policies to Nazism: instant point loss for the debater.

At 9/10/12 12:37 pm, Blogger countryboy said...

Let me introduce you to our new Masters . Everything makes sense to me now .



At 9/10/12 5:30 pm, Blogger Nitrium said...

@Chris Trotter
Nitrium, I suggest you investigate the phenomenon of deflation, and its effects on a nation's economic health.

No where did I mention deflation, or suggest that it is good. And where is this deflation you speak of? I see only rampant inflation over the last few years of at least 5-10% in the things we actually NEED to function in a 1st world country - i.e. food, fuel, electricity, and a roof above our heads. How much MORE inflation do you want???

All I'm trying to explain here is that QE is not some sort of miracle cure that will somehow solve all our recessionary problems. It won't. In fact, it solves NOTHING AT ALL, and indeed will make things even WORSE. Like deficit spending, this is due to the inflation it necessarily MUST bring with it, that targets EVERY citizen of the country, including those most unable to shoulder its burden - i.e. the working poor, pensioners, and beneficiaries.

BTW, if anyone knows who the economic advisor for the Green Party is, please let me know. My Google searches have so far turned up nothing. I have a sinking feeling it has been co-opted by banksters... This would make perfect sense - the banksters know that there is a global shift to the "Green" movement, so they will be positioning their pieces accordingly. Goldman Sachs et al will naturally be giddy with excitment about trading carbon - just think of the the leveraging, securitising, derivatising, shorting, option trades, hedging etc etc of a brand new instrument... and they get to take a cut on every trade.

At 9/10/12 7:56 pm, Blogger Jim Mitchell said...

Why doesn't anyone mention Iceland anymore, they are doing all right.

@countryboy , I watched that a while ago, your right.

@Nitrum, I agree with allot of what you have said, but does it apply to NZ the same way it does to the US. I know Max Kaiser and Gerald celente would back you up.

Question: What happens to the money if we print more?

Do i get a pay rise so I can travel the country and spend it and thus support the people?.

Will my work get some to hire more staff?

Maybe we should wake to the fact that the USD is on borrowed time as the international currency and do what other countries are doing and dump it.
Just my 2cents, please answer my questions if you can/want. And please don't be too hard on me, it's my first time :).

At 10/10/12 7:36 am, Blogger Nitrium said...

@Jim Mitchell
What happens to the money if we print more?
Your purchasing power goes down, because prices have gone up. Savers thus get royally screwed, getting effectively negative interest rates. This usually leads to them speculating in riskier, higher return assets, such as houses, equities and commodities... leading to even higher inflation. Bernanke is exporting inflation, because so many countries have their currency pegged to the USD. It is estimated that up to 100 million may starve to death due food inflation (a direct result of his economic policy) - making him the most evil man that has ever lived.

Do i get a pay rise so I can travel the country and spend it and thus support the people?
No, you don't. You get effectively poorer, unless you can somehow manage to get your boss to give you a pay rise that matches inflation. Good luck getting a 10% pay rise, every year.

The US is definitely on borrowed time, as Bernanke has completely failed to stimulate anything with all his money printing, except inflation and the equity market of course. He has to date only managed to DESTROY jobs! What you say? I keep reading in the MSM that the US unemployment rate has been going DOWN, not UP! But if you look at the PARTICIPATION RATE (the only thing that matters, because only people that work can pay taxes), you will see it is still going down as more and more people have GIVEN UP looking for Obama's/Bernanke's ghost jobs.

At 10/10/12 9:05 am, Blogger countryboy said...

Thanks @ Jim Mitchell . Welcome aboard .
Given that NZ is now a foreign owned company-country and all our political machinations and debate is no more than lip service to a drone population of abuse victims I reckon we at al . Us Kiwis,should urgently consider an alternative local economy/ economies and run those scum foreign banksters out like the rats they are . ( No disrespect to actual rats . ) . If I was King of NZ and general Grand Poo Baa I'd be creating tax havens in the more remote country towns and rural areas to attract people out of the corporatized slums that cities are destined to become . Country towns are dying of boredom . The people of those towns are locked into TV-land and are hugely vulnerable to political manipulations . It's interesting to note that the most manipulated towns are the ones in the richest areas of the country . Funny that ?

How about tax free incomes for the first five years of occupation perhaps ? ( I can hear some ask ' Where's tha' money gonna come from for that ? Let me refer you to the above re banksters . We wouldn't have them feasting on us like stoned vampires so there'd be billions or dollars less stolen from our economy . And fat bitches like bennett whine about bludging beneficiaries ) That would mean people would have time and financial security to settle in , build friendships and have families . In parallel to that brilliant idea I'd be building and endorsing rural polytechnics whereby students would learn animal husbandry , carpentry , mechanics , engineering , agricultural skills , horticulture , all about fish , ( What is a fish expert called ? ) , meteorology , forestry and banjo playing and we would have the skills to build the porches on which to play them ! All these skills and more are basic requirements to being that most hated , vilified , despised and yet most essential of Gods good bipeds ... the farmer . Not lawyers . Not accountants . Not Bankers . Not real estate agents . They won't feed you when you get hungry . They will eat you though if they come across your dead carcass in a snow drift .

I'd insist people work four days a week to begin with and then increase their rates of pay and so forcing them to reduce their work days to three so as parents could spend time with their kids and form strong relationships within their peer groups . I'd also create a new holiday . A special day of the year where everybody could attend ritual fluro-vest burying ceremonies followed by a work-fashion parade and prize givings .

Once all the fluro-vests were buried , we could go home to live in the eco effecient , door lockless houses we'd built ourselves and drink the wine made from the grapes we grew .

Sounds like Paradise ? It's right fucking here man ! All we have to do is take it back ! Enough of the intimate dissection of bullshit artists and fucking evil wankers ! Come on ! Lets go !




I watched a young guy on TV One this morning . A Mr Sleep . Brilliant . Great to see such passion rising . Freaked out old Ms Skin and Bones .


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