Sell off
I was at a meeting with OTS and TPK yesterday in regards a Treaty settlement matter and the first item on the agenda... was the government's share offer to Iwi for Mighty River Power. Not what I had expected.
The officials weren't making a sales pitch as such - because the Iwi couldn't realistically have got everything prepared by the government's short timeframe anyway - it was more the presentation of cursory information as a matter of form. Nevertheless it was an opportunity to tell the men from the ministry exactly what I thought about this insulting offer. It is a "shares minus" scheme designed to divide Maori by enticing a few Iwi in the strongest positions to take the second-class deal and give up the court action. (Excellent blog post at Waitakere News on the legal framework of the case, and John Armstrong in the NZ Herald also.)
No doubt these meetings will all be held out as some manner of "consultation" and a sign of "good faith" when the government is in court. It is a farce. Like a robber claiming consultation when they shout "this is a stick up!" and claiming consent was given when the victim hands over their stuff.
Not that Pakeha give a fuck about Maori getting dicked over - if you believe the usual mindless bile spewing out of the drain at talk-hate radio:
-----
Mike Hosking:
The Waitangi Tribunal’s latest report looks into the Urewera National Park area and the people involved, mainly Tuhoe.
[...]
But the report also tells us, almost instructs in how we need to be reacting to this. It says we should be ashamed. I have thought about it and I still cannot for the life of me work out how I could do that. How can you be ashamed of events you had no part of, no knowledge of, weren’t there, weren’t born, you have no connection, no family ties, nothing. You can think it was wrong or a mistake or something that needs rectifying. But I always connected shame with direct involvement or association like you did it, you were there, you know the perpetrator or you condoned it. That can bring shame. Is a government department, which is all the tribunal is, really now in the business of telling us how to feel? And why would they think they have that right?
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Is it wrong if young German's feel ashamed of their nation's Nazi past? And would Hosking also claim that people should not similarly feel proud about the positive things from the past to which a person plays no part? If we can't feel ashamed of a misdeed against Maori in 1893 how can we feel proud of voting rights for women in 1893?
The point is the Crown was the agent of dispossession and still is. The Crown has been in continuous government without break - something NZ politicians seem quite proud about - but the consequence is that this government is as responsible as past ones for the wrongs they commit and the liabilities they incur. Just as the NZ government will not reneg on Crown debts - no matter how long ago the security was issued - the NZ government can't reneg on fundamental instruments such as the Treaty.
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Hosking: The tribunal concept set up all those years ago was a generous concept and even if you supported it, you have to have wondered by now whether the whole thing hasn’t got wildly out of hand. Did a specific set of grievances need an entire tribunal as opposed to the other grievances we have over things like privacy and government and law who merely need an ombudsman or a commissioner? And does a tribunal, by becoming so activist in their findings and language, do the cause and our country any good by backing one side to the detriment of the other by instructing us to feel certain emotions around any given outcome, emotions in reaction to an event none of us had the slightest part in?
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Hosking doesn't quote the "ashamed" part so it's difficult to say what they did to piss him off - apart from remind him of history. "Backing one side"? Makes a change from every other arm of government backing Mike Hosking's side. As to why the tribunal exists - he must be feigning ignorance, surely? The other mechanisms couldn't work because the laws were so anti-Maori and in opposition to the tenets of the Treaty - especially back in 1975.
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Hosking: Can anyone honestly say the wrongs committed generations ago were ever really in any danger of happening in our life time? That the colonial simplicity and aggression of those days still lingers in any tangible fashion that would somehow be able to be enacted in the 21st century?I would’ve thought it was exactly the opposite.
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To the extent that the confiscations and the oppressive measures of the past remain in effect then it is indeed happening in our lifetime. All those things that were taken and damaged and have not been returned or mended hurt today as they hurt in the past. The "simplicity and aggression" persists across the board in government action (and inaction) just as it does in the mind of Hosking. As for the reactionary reiteration of the Pakeha mythology that maintains that everything bad that happened in the past (but - hypocritically - not the good things of course) remain in the past is utterly self-serving and plainly - factually - incorrect. The Foreshore and Seabed confiscation was enacted in 2004. The Urewera "terrorist" raids in 2007. The Crown-owned hydro dams across the rivers are being alienated to private interests as I type. At the local level Councils up and down the country are wantonly allowing the desecration of waahi tapu and selling off land before claims can be settled. The list of active breaches and prejudicial decisions are contemporary and they are numerous. But to the poor, downtrodden white man like Hosking:
----
All I’ve know my entire life is a country that is bending over backwards to put things right, to make things better.
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Bending over backwards!? The equivalent to the entire quantum of settlements over 20 years can be given over by the Minister of Finance to pay off the greedy (mainly Pakeha South Island "investors") of South Canterbury Finance in the course of an afternoon... and yet Hosking reckons it's the Maori that are having the government - the whole country - bending over backwards for them? Absurdity, absurdity on roller blades.
Hoskings comments are the sort of factless, delusional, racist justifications and excuses that ciculate within the Pakeha community (esp. via the media) at quite a velocity: reassuring and reinforcing the ignorance and prejudice that prevents a proper and full resolution to the Treaty question.
The officials weren't making a sales pitch as such - because the Iwi couldn't realistically have got everything prepared by the government's short timeframe anyway - it was more the presentation of cursory information as a matter of form. Nevertheless it was an opportunity to tell the men from the ministry exactly what I thought about this insulting offer. It is a "shares minus" scheme designed to divide Maori by enticing a few Iwi in the strongest positions to take the second-class deal and give up the court action. (Excellent blog post at Waitakere News on the legal framework of the case, and John Armstrong in the NZ Herald also.)
Not that Pakeha give a fuck about Maori getting dicked over - if you believe the usual mindless bile spewing out of the drain at talk-hate radio:
-----
Mike Hosking:
The Waitangi Tribunal’s latest report looks into the Urewera National Park area and the people involved, mainly Tuhoe.
[...]
But the report also tells us, almost instructs in how we need to be reacting to this. It says we should be ashamed. I have thought about it and I still cannot for the life of me work out how I could do that. How can you be ashamed of events you had no part of, no knowledge of, weren’t there, weren’t born, you have no connection, no family ties, nothing. You can think it was wrong or a mistake or something that needs rectifying. But I always connected shame with direct involvement or association like you did it, you were there, you know the perpetrator or you condoned it. That can bring shame. Is a government department, which is all the tribunal is, really now in the business of telling us how to feel? And why would they think they have that right?
-----
Is it wrong if young German's feel ashamed of their nation's Nazi past? And would Hosking also claim that people should not similarly feel proud about the positive things from the past to which a person plays no part? If we can't feel ashamed of a misdeed against Maori in 1893 how can we feel proud of voting rights for women in 1893?
The point is the Crown was the agent of dispossession and still is. The Crown has been in continuous government without break - something NZ politicians seem quite proud about - but the consequence is that this government is as responsible as past ones for the wrongs they commit and the liabilities they incur. Just as the NZ government will not reneg on Crown debts - no matter how long ago the security was issued - the NZ government can't reneg on fundamental instruments such as the Treaty.
-----
Hosking: The tribunal concept set up all those years ago was a generous concept and even if you supported it, you have to have wondered by now whether the whole thing hasn’t got wildly out of hand. Did a specific set of grievances need an entire tribunal as opposed to the other grievances we have over things like privacy and government and law who merely need an ombudsman or a commissioner? And does a tribunal, by becoming so activist in their findings and language, do the cause and our country any good by backing one side to the detriment of the other by instructing us to feel certain emotions around any given outcome, emotions in reaction to an event none of us had the slightest part in?
-----
Hosking doesn't quote the "ashamed" part so it's difficult to say what they did to piss him off - apart from remind him of history. "Backing one side"? Makes a change from every other arm of government backing Mike Hosking's side. As to why the tribunal exists - he must be feigning ignorance, surely? The other mechanisms couldn't work because the laws were so anti-Maori and in opposition to the tenets of the Treaty - especially back in 1975.
-----
Hosking: Can anyone honestly say the wrongs committed generations ago were ever really in any danger of happening in our life time? That the colonial simplicity and aggression of those days still lingers in any tangible fashion that would somehow be able to be enacted in the 21st century?I would’ve thought it was exactly the opposite.
-----
To the extent that the confiscations and the oppressive measures of the past remain in effect then it is indeed happening in our lifetime. All those things that were taken and damaged and have not been returned or mended hurt today as they hurt in the past. The "simplicity and aggression" persists across the board in government action (and inaction) just as it does in the mind of Hosking. As for the reactionary reiteration of the Pakeha mythology that maintains that everything bad that happened in the past (but - hypocritically - not the good things of course) remain in the past is utterly self-serving and plainly - factually - incorrect. The Foreshore and Seabed confiscation was enacted in 2004. The Urewera "terrorist" raids in 2007. The Crown-owned hydro dams across the rivers are being alienated to private interests as I type. At the local level Councils up and down the country are wantonly allowing the desecration of waahi tapu and selling off land before claims can be settled. The list of active breaches and prejudicial decisions are contemporary and they are numerous. But to the poor, downtrodden white man like Hosking:
----
All I’ve know my entire life is a country that is bending over backwards to put things right, to make things better.
-----
Bending over backwards!? The equivalent to the entire quantum of settlements over 20 years can be given over by the Minister of Finance to pay off the greedy (mainly Pakeha South Island "investors") of South Canterbury Finance in the course of an afternoon... and yet Hosking reckons it's the Maori that are having the government - the whole country - bending over backwards for them? Absurdity, absurdity on roller blades.
Hoskings comments are the sort of factless, delusional, racist justifications and excuses that ciculate within the Pakeha community (esp. via the media) at quite a velocity: reassuring and reinforcing the ignorance and prejudice that prevents a proper and full resolution to the Treaty question.
posted by Tim Selwyn @ 3:58 pm
7 comments
7 Comments:
@ Gosman . I never thought I'd say this but I think you are correct . Live in the now baby . Or , in the immortal words of a character in The Incredables ... ' I don't do the past darling , it detracts from the Now . I'm Irish may God help me and if I dwelt on the past I'd be consumed with grudges , hatreds and miseries the likes of which will not be seen again . ( Has anyone read The Poor Mouth by Flann O'Brien ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_B%C3%A9al_Bocht ) Surely , no greater , more miserable text for those on a losing streak ... For it'll only make you feel worse for reading it , in a good and helarious way . Hahahah!
I'm not saying that one persons miseries are more nor less than anothers' . All I'm saying is take out a warehouse and put your grudges in there for safe keeping . They can wait . It's the Now that is of real concern . We Kiwis are being set up and we should all concern ourselves for understanding that . And taking action . There have been some superb energy put into research and then the posting of links to clearly show we are in danger . So what now then . Tea and toast in front of the heat pump ? Romantic ? Get used to it . It's the way of the future .
I glad you got my point as I realised I missed a bit at the start to make it clear that I think young Germans should not feel ashamed for the Nazi era. Certainly they should remember it and be wary of people pushing group based politics but they should not feel ashamed.
Do members of Ngāti Tama and Ngāti Mutunga feel ashamed by their actions after 1835 on the Chatham Islands? I suspect not.
Do the Maori allies of the Crown during the various conflicts feel ashamed because of their actions? Again I suspect they do not.
This is not about guilt, grudges, or whatever.
It's actually quite simple; an agreement was signed in 1840 and said agreement was violated on numerous occassions.
The violation of the Treaty requires setting right and no amount of quibbling by (mainly) Pakeha will change the reality that there is no "sunset clause", "expiry date", "statute of limitations", etc, on the Treaty.
It is as valid now as it was in 1840.
Gosman, you are being disingenuous with your rhetoric,
"Do members of Ngāti Tama and Ngāti Mutunga feel ashamed by their actions after 1835 on the Chatham Islands? I suspect not.
Do the Maori allies of the Crown during the various conflicts feel ashamed because of their actions? Again I suspect they do not."
What you're really doing is justifying treaty violations by saying, "oh look - they did it to".
The law - whether criminal or civil - doesn't work that way. (Which I suspect you probably already knew.)
If someone broke a contract with you, I'd doubt you'd appreciate their attempt to justify it by pointing to alleged wrongdoing on your part.
Remember that the process of suit and settlement is a Pakeha construct. Criticising Maori, as you are doing, ignores basic principles of natural justice.
That legal process is a pakeha construct, and if Maori can use it to address grievances, then they are using the system as it has been set up in NZ.
As the old Fisher & Paykel bloke used to say, "It's the setting right that count".
" I think young Germans should not feel ashamed for the Nazi era. "
What you think on that issue is irrelevant. It's up to the German people to determine their own attitudes on their history.
You seem to have missed the point that Tim made; why is it a good thing to feel collective pride in a past national achievement - but not the mirror-opposite of shameful events?
NZers feel great pride in the achievements of Kate Sheppard, Rutherford, Edmund Hillary, etc, etc.
Blanking out the nastier aspects of our past, such as the Sacking of Parihaka, indicates an inability to accept the bad with the good, in our history.
@ be.fre . I hate to be the one who causes your adrenalin to course through your veins but
I think it is you who misses the point .
Admittedly , the ' point ' is somewhat abstract .
While the collective WE might ponder the details of past slights , complete fuck -ups , murders , mistrials , property thefts , contractual thievery ,no doubt buggery , cannibalism , arms dealings , all-out wars , gun play , Colonial Rape , Empire building ... Oh my God I could go on and on as I'm sure you could also .
The POINT ! is that we are in the NOW ! What went on is of course relevant and needs to be addressed I'm sure but NOW ! NOW ! We are being fucked over on an unprecedented scale .
Did you know that when an Australian bush fire rages , creatures who would otherwise eat one another seek shelter together in burrows until the fire storm passes ? Did you know that those same creatures share precious space up trees etc when the land floods ? Up and down they must go . No wonder then that some of them have developed great legs for bouncing .
I can only imagine the sly glances and the rumbling of empty bellies as the fire and/or water retreats .
However ...
We really , really need to rise above Treaty Settlements etc etc if for just a moment because we're all getting fucked here and now .
If as I assume you are Maori and you'd prefer my Irish self to just shut up and fuck off then pay me the $15 mil the BaNknaZies swindled my family of after a life of hard graft supplying our country with essential export commodities that helped build the very infrastructures that WE ALL enjoy and is now being squandered by a select few cunts ! I will certainly fuck off . I'll happily send you a post card from the French Spanish border inviting you over for a glass of wine and some nice cheeses . In the mean time . Here we are . Locked into this absurd , antique argument as our Masters steal off with our stuff and create a swelling underclass for Serco's private prisons for example . Talk about not seeing the forest for the fucking trees ! Jesus ! What's it going to take ? Divide and conquer / Ring a fucking bell ?
Maori were the very best at the Art of War . Maori were admired world wide for their tenacity and tactical skills . We Kiwis need that acumen . We need Maori hui , whanau , and Iwi . We need you guys actually . We need Hone Harawira to Unite us as one clan against jonky-fucking-stien and his minions . How else can I say it more plainly ? 270 K kids hungry . Highest incarceration rate in the world . Most leveraged . Highest suicide rates amongst etc . Teenage pregnancy ... Closing special needs schools . Draconian new labour laws . HELP ! Seriously , don't look over you're shoulder ! I'm looking at Maori ! Yes ! You ! Help ! HELP !
As for that old Fisher and Paykel bloke . Don't fucking get me started ! Too late . You got me started .
Such companies .... no . That can wait for the time being .
As for Gosman . I'm amazed to find that being accused of applying disingenuous rhetoric could be considered a compliment if one were to dissect those great words . Lucky you Gosman . Seriously , well done .
@ be.fre
I think you are mistaking rightings historical wrongs with a call to feel ashamed for those same wrongs.
I have no problem acknowledging that there are commitments that were broken in the past that need to be resolved. However that doesn't mean I should feel personally ashamed for the breaking of those commitments.
As for you analogy about NZers feeling proud about the success of past and present NZers and how this somehow means we should also feel ashamed at the past actions of people here as well. If you want to talk about disingenuous then this certainly qualifies.
Please note that in the case of us celebrating the success of NZers we are meaning the entire nation being proud. In the case of righting historical wrongs it woulf only be part of society that is meant to feel ashamed.
Your analogy would hold more sway if only Eurpoean NZer were allowed to feel proud of people like Rutherford. I personally would find this approach distasteful, bordering on the racist. What would you think if NZ Europeans claimed the successes of NZ Europeans as their own?
@ Countryboy
"We really , really need to rise above Treaty Settlements etc etc if for just a moment because we're all getting fucked here and now . "
It's easy to say that, Countryboy, when we're not the ones who have outstanding grievances caused by Treaty violations.
It's like me saying to you, "don't worry about your grievance with your bank.finance company/etc - just move on".
"Moving on" shouldn't be used as a catch-phrase to overlook breaches iof an agreement that was signed in good faith.
Personally, I don't feel guilt. But I do believe that wrongs need to be righted. Then and only then, can we "move on".
@ Gosman;
"As for you analogy about NZers feeling proud about the success of past and present NZers and how this somehow means we should also feel ashamed at the past actions of people here as well. If you want to talk about disingenuous then this certainly qualifies. "
I think the point was well made, Gosman, by you don't want to address that issue? I wonder why?
"I think you are mistaking rightings historical wrongs with a call to feel ashamed for those same wrongs. "
I think that's your interpretations, not anyone elses.
"Do members of Ngāti Tama and Ngāti Mutunga feel ashamed by their actions after 1835 on the Chatham Islands? I suspect not.
Do the Maori allies of the Crown during the various conflicts feel ashamed because of their actions? Again I suspect they do not."
And the point of that is...?? What are you actually trying to prove by those two statements?
Sorry, Gosman, but all I'm getting from your comments is an attempt at showing how 'clever' you think you are, using other peoples' misfortunes.
@ Frank . You misunderstood me . And if you carefully read that relevant posting you would see that .
Of course what happened then is important . I never said it wasn't . Have you not read all my previous postings ? About my respect for Hone and my admiration for Maori who are aware and connected ?
I'm saying that while we all look down at our feet tearfully waling at the bones of our ancestors ... look above . In the high rises . We're being colonized by corporations who will buy Maori burial grounds then build condos on them . They may already have . Wake the fuck up ! Why don't you understand that we're being divided and concured ? Do you not realize that we are at polite war ? The Banks and the Money Traders are destroying lives as surely as nutters with guns . We need Maori unity and Maori need white numbers . I'm sorry if you find that offensive but it's a reality . We have to get together on this and bitching about historical travesties isn't going to fix the here and now . Historical travesties have waited this long , they are going to have to wait a bit longer .
Lets fix things here and now THEN go back and sort out the Treaty and it's complex issues . Perhaps with a decent government . Not this nest of vipers . Maori don't have the people-numbers anyway . Maori can , and will be vetoed at every turn by jonky-stien and his millionaire minions . You've heard the jonky threats over water rights for fucks sake ! I'm fucked if I know why people can't see what's happening ?
And this is my last word on the matter . I feel as though I've become involved in an Old Aunt whinge party . I'm preaching to the converted and the bloody converted are trying to convert me back into a kind of bloodless , ball-less frock wearer .
I begged Maori to call us non-maori into the fold to fight a common enemy and I get labeled a racist and a bigot by a fucking idiot and only one person came out fighting for me and for common sense . What the fuck is that about ? Well educated stupid people all make the same mistake . They think they can get a handle on something bewildering by studying it's tiny , intimate parts . That's wank ! You don't need an automotive engineering degree to drive a fucking car do you ? No! Just a half a bottle of wine , a spliff and some good music .
We're being harvested like fucking oysters . Wake up !
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