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Saturday, November 12, 2011

Vote for Change need better lies - how to support MMP strategically

A whole bunch of stupid propaganda emails sent out by anti-MMP show how desperate those trying to kill MMP have become, read this...

Hi all at Tumeke whose site is totally awesome,

Im worried about the MMP referendum. I have read one article on the vote STV in part B strategy but cant remember where or find it with google.

The best strategy in the MMP referendum (for MMP supporters) is to vote to retain MMP in part A and then to choose STV in part B. STV is the next most representative system after MMP and hated almost as much by FPP supporters. Contrary to what Gordon at scoop says, there is a strong push on the right for FPP and it is not a foregone conclusion that it would lose to MMP in 2014. If all MMP supporters choose and stick to STV in Part B and dont get lulled into inertia by the lack of compulsion to even do Part B then STV would win part B and SM and FPP would disappear FOREVER along with all the power and money that always backs them. I cant say this loudly enough!! VOTE STV IN PART B !!

Are you guys allowed to take sides in this? Give this strategy some air? We already make tactical decisions with more than one vote in MMP. Its quite simple really

Part A: Retain MMP
Part B: Choose STV

This even works if MMP is not the winner in part A so long as STV wins part B because there will not be any big power plays or money backing STV.

What do you think?

The MMP campaign website people said that they had considered comming out with a preferred choice for Part B but decided not to because then they would be forced to split their meagre resources. But I see this as the easier promote and it has extra insurance.

Regards, Mike Kolff

YAWN. If you really love MMP, vote FPP as the second option so the choice between representation and non-representation is crystal clear.

IF you want to keep MMP, vote for it in A and vote FPP in B so that the elites who promote First past the Post are forced to reveal the naked venal greed of their desire to implement a political system that benefits the rich and powerful over actual representation.



At 12/11/11 9:02 am, Blogger Owesome said...

...is that really the best strategy? Because in my gut I feel like that if FPP is even on the ballot, that's giving the haters a foot in the door.

At 12/11/11 9:07 am, Blogger slydixon said...

Does it void your vote if you simply vote to retain MMP the leave the alternative blank? It seems to me that if you don't want change then the second best option is hardly relevant.

At 12/11/11 9:24 am, Blogger Evan said...

Too risky altogether to put FPP at #2. FPP has a solid following. I am going for MMP at #1 and STV at #2. I think it would be a simple matter to show MMP is better than STV if it came to that.

At 12/11/11 9:26 am, Blogger Evan said...

Too risky to have FPP at #2. It is important that a lack of enthusiasm for it is shown at every step.

Anti-MMP fans are using SM as a stalking horse for FPP. If a majority votes against MMP, then I believe the push will come for FPP from these advocates of unfairness. FPP maximises unfairness - that is what they really really want.

At 12/11/11 9:42 am, Blogger Hans Versluys said...

I gather the Maori Party and Mana will campaign for any system except MMP because the alternatives have more (from 9 to 12) Maori seats?

At 12/11/11 9:50 am, Blogger Richard said...

I think you might be confusing STV with SM.

At 12/11/11 9:55 am, Blogger shkspr said...

Or vote PV as if that wins - then people will keep MMP cause PV is such a dawg!

At 12/11/11 1:43 pm, Blogger slydixon said...

But does it void the ticket if you only vote to retain MMP?

At 12/11/11 4:44 pm, Blogger Evan said...

Maori Party and Mana Party should support MMP. They are in Parliament because they are winning Electorate votes while their party support is absolutely hopeless. It would be very risky to change the dymamic.

At 12/11/11 4:49 pm, Blogger MikeK said...

I have no way to prove it but I am a committed MMP supporter.It was Bombers blog and Citizen A that have convinced me that National CAN lose the election.
I think that Bomber underestimates the danger that MMP would face if it were to be run off against FPP some time in the future.
All the comments above show that MMP supporters will split thier vote in Part B leaving the door wide open for FPP. Better to coordinate our action and remove FPP as an option right now.
And slydixon You can vote for MMP in Part A and leave Part B blank because part B is optional. You can go to http://www.referendum.org.nz/electionday and click on the voting paper to see the questions and options

At 12/11/11 5:22 pm, Blogger slydixon said...

Excellent thanks, there is the answer then.

At 13/11/11 12:30 am, Blogger Frank said...

I'm afraid I'm with Evan: having FPP at #2 is too risky. Especially if we get a government with an unpopular coalition partner. Think ACT with National, or Mana with Labour.

We've already seen examples of voters making incredibly stupid decisions in the past and I wouldn't trust some of my low-indformation fellow Kiwis to vote on pure prejudice.

Eg; I don't want Hone/Winston/Brash in Parliament, so I'm voting for FPP.

Unlikely? F**k no. It's totally likely.

How else to explain 66% of Kiwis opposing asset sales and STILL supportuing National and Key in the polls?!?! Sado-masochism?

At 14/11/11 12:36 am, Blogger Evan said...

Frank, I said having FPP at #2 is too risky because I think it needs to be lower rated, not higher!!

You can't choose systems on the basis that voters might be stupid.

And even under MMP, I don't think we will see Brash in Parliament - ACT AND BRASH highly unpopular and perceived to be greedy.

Winston Peters has made it clear he wants Opposition for NZFirst, so no coalition for him.

National will win anyway, with one or two parties pledging confidence and supply. Easy peasy.

Vote for MMP! Its the best.


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