A conscientious objector is not a religious doctor denying abortion advice
Just for the record, a conscientious objector is someone who rejects war NOT a Christian Dr who rejects a women's right to be consulted on an abortion. The former is a philosophical hero who deserves recognition, the latter is a theological coward who deserves having their medical licence revoked.
posted by Bomber @ 8:40 pm
6 comments
6 Comments:
All this post shows is that you have no idea what you are taking about when it comes to medical ethics nor do you have any concept of concienscious objection.
Your attempt to suggest this is a gender issue is puerile. There are just as many female doctors who refuse to help their patients abort their babies. There are two such female doctors in my practice. Like myself, they will discuss in full the patient's options (you did know that patients have options other than a termination, didn't you?). If the woman insists on termination, we refer her to a doctor who is willing to deal with this. This is ethical medical behavior in all except bomber world.
Even if a doctor is unwilling to refer the woman to another doctor, there is nothing stopping her accessing a doctor who has no objection to termination.
I note you also make this a Christian thing, but I know several Muslim and Jewish doctors who have similar objections. I see no reason why we should be beholden to your world view in this matter. The law does not provide a woman with a right to an abortion. Nor does it force a doctor to act against their beliefs.
Oh surprise, surprise - the god complex of MacDr pops up, perhaps you should stick to claiming global warming isn't happening because God promised Noah he wouldn't flood the earth again.
Let me be clear you religious quack - a conscientious objector is someone brave enough to with stand the scream of war, IT IS NOT some religious clown like you who deny women the medical right to an abortion because of the little whispers from your special invisible friend.
The fact that you won't even agree to refer the woman to another dr shows how theologically blind you are and how dangerous you and your religious brethren are.
How dare your special little invisible friend and your ridiculous beliefs be allowed to deny a woman their right to a medical procedure, you are no better than a superstitious witch dr.
We agree on one thing, the current law is a joke and women need better legislation to force religious bigots like you to refer women immediately to those who put her health first and not your invisible little friend. They need to have the certainty of gaining safe abortion without having to leap through the bullshit hoops put in front of them to prove they are 'mental', they need the process minus the nonsense.
All 'dr's like you need to be outed so that woman can know your bigotry up front so they don't bother going to you for your warped advice from the beginning, but I bet you wont allow that either will you mac dr? I bet you want you religious superstitions to be as hidden as your invisible friend don't you? And I bet you want this entire joke wrapped up and termed 'conscientious objector' so that it gives you some sense of righteousness?
I don't think you should be forced to consult a woman on things you are your joke religion demands against, we are all free to believe whatever ridiculous things we believe, I just think you should be clearly identified so that women can't fall into your trap from the beginning. If you won't consult on an abortion, you must be required to pass the consultancy along to someone who will, it's the Mothers health you should be concerned about, not your invisible friend.
And no surprises that Bomber refuses to engage in any debate at all but prefers to snipe at the commenter's character and motive. Your unreasoning cluelessness in these matters is legendary.
You appear to be unable to articulate why your world view should dictate to mine. Merely ridiculing my beliefs just make you look like a intolerant, bigoted prat. Note the correct use of the word "bigoted".
For the record (not that it will make any difference to your ranting), I am always upfront with my beliefs, unlike the denizens of the family "planning" clinics who rarely mention alternative support systems or adoption as an alternative to abortion. I do not pressurize women who see me about this, merely properly outline their options.
This is, of course, much too rational an approach for someone like you, Bomber. I'm sure you would prefer doctor's to be forced to insist that abortion is the only way and completely remove a woman's rational choice in this matter. Your faux concern for the mother's health is somewhat nauseating and hypocritical.
Great, more god complex from the witch dr, let's go through this apologist bullshit point by point shall we?
And no surprises that Bomber refuses to engage in any debate at all but prefers to snipe at the commenter's character and motive. Your unreasoning cluelessness in these matters is legendary.
Oh Boohoo Princess, I've engaged in the debate by calling you and your ilk out, and while you may be rightfully embarrassed by your climate denial in the past, it's important to remind people that's the level of intellect on your part.
You appear to be unable to articulate why your world view should dictate to mine. Merely ridiculing my beliefs just make you look like a intolerant, bigoted prat. Note the correct use of the word "bigoted".
YAWN - I've pointed out that those heroic enough to say no to war have earned the term conscientious objector where as people who have a special invisible friend and deny Women the right to seek an abortion are theological cowards who have no right to that term. That was my point and despite all your blubbering about what a mean man I am, I articulated it very well.
For the record (not that it will make any difference to your ranting), I am always upfront with my beliefs, unlike the denizens of the family "planning" clinics who rarely mention alternative support systems or adoption as an alternative to abortion. I do not pressurize women who see me about this, merely properly outline their options.
How magnanimous of you, yet you defend the right of other witch drs to allow their special relationship with their invisible friend to deny any mention of it, so it calls into question if you really do in fact provide those options.
How do you do it Mac Doctor, do you tell women that you are anti-abortion and you will not allow them to have that procedure? How many abortions have you greenlighted?
You are the one who in your first post stated Even if a doctor is unwilling to refer the woman to another doctor, there is nothing stopping her accessing a doctor who has no objection to termination.
I also find your hatred towards Family Planning amusing, and your arrogance that they only focus on abortion says more about your own narrow view of the world than mine.
This final paragraph of god complex hubris says it all
This is, of course, much too rational an approach for someone like you, Bomber. I'm sure you would prefer doctor's to be forced to insist that abortion is the only way and completely remove a woman's rational choice in this matter.
That's just bullshit MacDr, why put words in my mouth? Where did I say anything about mandatory abortions? I simply believe that a conscientious objector is not a term clowns like you should be allowed any where near, to turn that into some ridiculous claim I only want women to be forced into abortions shows how desperate you are.
And as for this bullshit...
Your faux concern for the mother's health is somewhat nauseating and hypocritical.
...seeing as you are the one avoiding any advice on abortion, claiming my position is nauseating and hypocritical is a self projection too far for you to be taken seriously.
Your tone and baseless attacks on Family Planning say it all.
Thanks you for clearing up bomber-speak for me.
Apparently
"engaging in the debate" means "ad-hominem attack". "articulate" means "rant".
"god complex" means "anything to do with faith".
I shall add these to my Bomber dictionary.
I do not ever blubber, Bomber. your opinion of me is utterly irrelevant in the scheme of things. I merely point out that your idea of rational argument is to rave on about global warming, as if that has anything to do with abortion.
I did not suggest you desire mandatory abortions, just mandatory forcing of doctors to abrogate their beliefs. Read the sentence again. Try for comprehension this time.
Just wondering how many times YOU have had to engage with family planning? I have yet to hear of a single woman visiting family planning for a termination who has had her real choices outlined to her. I do not hate family planning (why should I?), I just think they allow their ideology to get in the way of good medicine.
In much the same way as you allow your ideology to get in the way of rational thought, Martyn.
On reflection I was a little too harsh on you Mac Dr. We are both passionate about this issue.
I would like to stand up for Family Planning however, as I know many good people who do their best to help women who are in stressful situations and don't believe for one second they limit options to any woman seeking them.
I do however come back to my original position and that is that I find the use of conscientious objector by religious medical professionals who refuse on religious grounds to discuss abortion or refer a woman onto someone who will perform one for her highly distasteful and offensive to those who earned that term by deciding against war.
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