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Wednesday, November 17, 2010

You are being lied to over the Search and Surveillance Bill

Rights of media secure in bill: Govt
News organisations are being assured by the Government that a proposed bill will not destroy their right to protect their sources.

But critics say that does not mean that journalists' sources will remain protected, as a judge can order them to answer questions or release documents to police.

The powers of the Search and Surveillance Bill have come under fire from news organisation and civil libertarians, who say that it goes too far in removing the right to silence in questioning in relation to serious fraud or gang crimes.

The right to silence remains if answering questions amounted to self-incrimination.

The bill has also been criticised for potentially weakening the fourth estate, making it less likely for whistle-blowers to come forward and harder to hold institutions to account.

At the heart of the criticism are examination and production orders, which would compel a person to answer questions or release documents. At the moment only the Serious Fraud Office has this power, but the bill would extend it to police.

Non-compliance could result in a one year jail term.

How stupid are NZers? Seriously, how easy is it to remove vast judicial protections and erode our civil liberties without a fucking whimper?

Painfully easy.

We are being conned into believing these powers are aimed at 'da gangs', really - da gangs huh? We don't need worry because these powers are aimed at 'da gangs' right? Vast erosion of civil liberties doesn't impact on you because it's da gangs da gangs, dem gangs, da gangs, da gangs, dem gangs, da gangs da gangs, dem gangs and it doesn't impact on me.

Do you know what the police definition of a gang for these powers is?

You think dear asleep NZer that da gang is the Headhunters or the Mongrel Mob or Black Power don't you.

Do you know what the police definition of a gang is for these powers?

3 people who know each other. THAT IS THE DEFINITION THAT TRIGGERS THESE POWERS, 3 fucking people who know each other.

NZ - you are being conned into handing over YOUR rights with zero debate just the way you were conned into the manufactured crises at the Hobbit which resulted in Warners laughing al the way back to the Hollywood bank..

This is not a political issue, it doesn't matter of you are right wing, left wing, in the middle, white, brown, yellow, green, male, female, gay, straight, trans, Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jedi - WE SHOULD NEVER GIVE THE STATE THE POWER TO LEGALLY SPY ON US!

3 day 'fishing' trips for the police who can spy on you with no warrant whatsoever

No right to silence

Domestic spying by 3rd parties

The media losing their right to protect sources.

While our civil liberties are under the most disturbing attack in modern history, National are trying to 'streamline justice' with Simon Powers cheap pet-food grade abattoir conveyor belt of mercy. While announcing he wants a 'rethink' of the Bill of Rights (cue Emperor's march from the Empire Strikes Back), Simon wants this black hole of Justice to suck anyone caught in it to save some measly dollars....

Attorney General criticises justice law change
Proposals to allow criminal trials to proceed without the accused being present will strip defendants of a fundamental right, Attorney-General Chris Finlayson has warned.

In a report on a bill streamlining the criminal justice system, Mr Finlayson also criticises moves to allow courts to order the retrial of an acquitted defendant if new evidence comes to light and the reversing of the onus of proof for some offences.

The 526-page Criminal Procedure (Reform and Modernisation) Bill sets out sweeping reforms to speed up the time from arrest to prosecution, including increasing the threshold for the right to a jury trial.

It also requires the defence to disclose issues in dispute before cases get to court, a move that civil liberties and defence lawyers say erodes the right to silence.

...look NZ, you hopped up and down and screamed over power saving lightbulbs and water saving showerheads and the repeal of section 59 that didn't do any of the ridiculous things you thought it would and you screamed for unionist heads over the manufactured crises at the Hobbit, all pointless protests over shit that never mattered, yet here the Government are about to pass the largest erosion of civil liberties ever passed in NZ and nothing from the country?

Why can we spend so much energy protesting stuff that doesn't matter, yet for something as huge as giving 70 state departments the power to spy on us we roll over for John Key and help spread our cheeks.

Maybe it's because our TV news media have spent more time on the life and death of a psychic octopus than this issue that so many NZers are not aware of this, my bet is that Simon will try and ram it through under urgency as the holidays loom so no one will pay attention.

(By the way, Close Up will be doing a end of month special tribute show - 'paul the psychic octopus - we hardly knew you at all', where the walrus of news Mark Sainsbury will talk to the Mum and Dad of Paul the Octopus about a special final prophecy he gave them to tell the world. I can't wait.)


At 17/11/10 9:56 am, Anonymous Steve B said...

Now there are misgivings from someone people listen to (radio "personality" rather than mere journalists

(Note 2003 date)

bloggers or Green MPs), we might manage to spark real public concern.

You're right: its always about the gangs - or the terrorists or the traders of illegal porn: you ordinary people have "nothing to hide," so you don't need to worry, right? For how much longer will we swallow that line - especially in the face of evidence that the power of the gangs has not been decreased one iota.

It astounds me that the little removal of right to silence flagged in the above story was first contemplated for the dire crime of omission of your emissions under climate-change legislation. Didn't work; terrorism talk did. Now that same provision (lurking in the Summary Proceedings Act) is to be part of the Search & Surveilance Bill.

So the govt can claim it's only a clarification of existing law.

Bomber, your interest may have come a little too late.

At 17/11/10 10:54 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe they will pass this bill anyway, nationals track record proves just that, then in a few months or a year they will repeal parts of it later, when they realise how wrong it is or how much they invade the private live of kiwis everywhere.

But this bill, in my opinion was a long time coming, with the removal of the right to appeal to privy council and the birth of the supreme courts, merely the start of whole process. The fact that the Privy council has smacked the ass of this circus we call Justice system many many many times before for it ignorance and injustice rulings in a number of cases, should of sent flares up for kiwis to realise that there Justice system is inadequate of producing honest Justice.

Now control of the Justice circus (sorry i meant system) is in the hands of Simon Power, you have to be kidding me, I don't believe the man is able to tie his own shoe laces let alone think rationally. I am grateful he does not mention rethinking Habeas corpus, so theirs some hope, little but some.

Now having no Principle to correct these crazies in power of a great country and it is great, at least for now, then these right wing politicians run off to conjure up ideas that they obviously, founded with there little head, Simon Power is a prime example with his quote regarding the "Bill of Rights" Power wouldn't even come close to being a pimple on the ass of James Madison, Simon Power is just not capable of anything great or remotely mediocre.

Kiwi's (the real thinking positive types & not the keyhole junkies you commonly see trolling the pages of NZ blog sites) are in serious jeopardy of losing your civil liberties and fundamental rights to protect yourself and family to remain private person.

I may move back to England when this bill passes, dam I hope not, it is quite obvious that this bill is wrong. I came here with my family for peace and comfort, to raise my family, not to have NZ police invade my privacy & civil liberties just because I know 3 people they may consider them a gang.

That is plan fascism.

At 17/11/10 11:19 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yep, wait til the next protest march happens and the pigs will pull out all their nice new anti-gang, anti-terrorist toys(laws) to play with....

At 17/11/10 11:25 am, Anonymous Steve B said...

Perhaps I should remind people that this bill was introduced by the previous, Labour-led government. Left or right, doesn't matter; you'll be observed and controlled anyway.

At 17/11/10 3:29 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A proposed Bill.
A new law.
I woke up this morning & thought to myself. "You know what would make this beautiful day even better?. Our government giving us a new law.."
More laws.
More rules.
Dont do this.
Dont do that.
What are you doing?
Why are you doing that?
Do things my way, not your way..
Nag. Piss. Moan. Poke my big fucking nosey nose into peoples lives..
Wonderful National.
Wonderfully Wonderful..

At 17/11/10 7:15 pm, Anonymous The Hag said...

We have had the Laws from the Muldoon days, now we have the dictator to exercise them.
One way ticket to a them & us Ceau┼čescu style State.

At 17/11/10 10:07 pm, Anonymous AAMC said...

'Perhaps I should remind people that this bill was introduced by the previous, Labour-led government. Left or right, doesn't matter; you'll be observed and controlled anyway.'

I'm not an expert on the accuracy of this statement, but taking it at face value I agree. The 'Establishment"- Right or Left - will instinctively be driven towards seeking more control, in the same way a Corporation will seek endless growth. Citizens need to remind these institutions who it is they are commissioned with serving.

Unfortunately we don't control the narrative and so only those who are actively engaged (outside of the MSM) tend to give them any headspace, everybody else is engaged in Outrageous Fortune or Masterchef.

There is of coarse a Humanitarian and collective streak in the Left - which doesn't seem to exist in the individualist worshiping right - which does stand against this trajectory of power. Unfortunately however, those who do want to raise these issues can't afford good PR companies and so lightbulbs and showerheads become issues and Fascism doesn't.

'Rationality can't win emotional arguments'

At 18/11/10 10:43 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"There is of coarse a Humanitarian and collective streak in the Left - which doesn't seem to exist in the individualist worshiping righy"

Oh do fuck off with your sanctimonious drivel. You try to act all pure and holy and in the very next breath smear every single person with different views to yours as selfish and evil.

You on the left wank on about the evils of capitalism - have a look at the biggest capitalist of them all, Bill Gates who is in the process of giving away 60 billion dollars of his own money funding health care and vaccinations for some of the world's poorest people.
But you sit in your tiny little collectivist humanitarian tower and tell us all how much better you are than them AAMC

At 18/11/10 4:39 pm, Anonymous AAMC said...

No Anon, I haven't claimed to be better than anybody. I've stated that power has the desire to increase, whatever it's persuasion. There are good and bad intentions in all camps, but holding up one example of a capitalist giving away a small portion of his wealth hardly forms a solid argument on the pro's of Capitalism.

If a person is primarily motivated by their personal interests (a self proclaimed mantra of the Right) then I do take exception to their views because they negatively effect the society which I inhabit, but I don't proclaim that I am right and they are wrong but rather welcome debate. Unfortunately - as you are a case in point - this can sometimes be a little futile as Anon Right wing Trolls tend to use phrases like "sanctimonious drivel" and yet fail to put forward an argument.

If the odd billionaire finds it in themselves to become generous with the Billions of dollars that sit idle in their bank accounts then of coarse I applaud them and hope more follow in Bill Gates and George Soros's footsteps. There of coarse lies the problem as the doctrine of individualism doesn't make this a natural path.

Isn't it a pity that wealth is distributed to so few people through unfettered Capitalism that we then need these lords of the universe to dip into their vault to offer a few crumbs to the starving? And if only a handful find this charity in themselves, then how does your assertion stack up? He can't do it on his own.

The Gates Foundation proclaim "We estimate we can be 3-5% of the overall solution" see link below "The new philanthropy"

But on the topic of Capitalist altruism...

Bayer HIV Contaminated Vaccine;



and of coarse we could post links endlessly....

At 18/11/10 4:42 pm, Anonymous AAMC said...

...of coarse I'm aware that you won't read the links Anon, which reinforces the link I posted yesterday. It's an emotional argument you want isn't it, because you don't like people to hold different views to yours.

At 18/11/10 6:33 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's an emotional argument you want isn't it, because you don't like people to hold different views to yours.

Irony much?
Anon was right, you do write sanctimonious drivel.

Socialism has its pros and cons, as does Capitalism.
It's just that I know which system I prefer to live under.
And I bet you prefer to live under it too AAMC.

At 18/11/10 8:27 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"How stupid are NZers? Seriously, how easy is it to remove vast judicial protections and erode our civil liberties without a fucking whimper? "

Au contraire my petite bobo, you welcomes the electoral finance bill with open arms which admittedly had a chilling effect on free speech just because it gave you hope that labour would get back in.

At 19/11/10 7:54 am, Anonymous AAMC said...

A refined and regulated form of Capitalism which acknowledges externalities and that the market should serve the citizens rather than the corporations and live within the means of the planet, yes! But I don't currently feel like I live in a functioning Democracy or that capitalism serves society Anon. So although I would prefer this to your likely comparison of Stalin or Mao, I don't as readily support the status quo.

At 19/11/10 7:57 am, Anonymous AAMC said...

And if it's sanctimonious to find it hard to accept 1 billion people going hungry each day, it says more about you than it does me Anon.

At 19/11/10 12:43 pm, Anonymous BNDD said...

And if it's sanctimonious to find it hard to accept 1 billion people going hungry each day, it says more about you than it does me Anon.

That is pretty fucking rich coming from someone complaining about other people's use of emotional arguments.

And btw, you lay the fault that hunger of 1 billion people where exactly aamc?

All because of capitalism? Because NZ produces more than it nneds to for food and sells the surplus for a profit?

Look where most of that 1 billion hungry people live and you will find that the grand majority of them live in failed marxists states and/or countries torn apart by ancient tribal grudges.

At 19/11/10 5:04 pm, Anonymous AAMC said...

Or abandoned Imperial States BNDD?

Have you read about Colten mining?

So that we can have cheap cell phones? Yes I live here and I use a cell phone, but that doesn't mean I need to agree to support this in the name of maximizing profit.

And is it right to sit on mountains of corn or pay farmers not to produce while we watch these people starve. Oh that's right, it's all about individual responsibility isn't it, even if a drone operator thinks maybe your house needs blowing up or radioactive waste is being disposed of off your coastline.

Perhaps you should read the article I posted, "emotional" can have various definitions BBND like trading in rhetoric and accusation rather than reason and discussion.

At 20/11/10 12:41 pm, Anonymous BNDD said...

Abandond states like Hongkong?

How about America? The English gave up on that place a while back, how are they doing now?

How about Zimbabwe, they must be doing pretty good since the people rose up and got rid of their white oppressors?

How about India? Now that the English have left I suppose their fair and equitable Caste system has improved their whole populations' standard of living.

I like how you neatly try and role imperialism and capitalism together like they are the same thing so you can blame them for any ill in the world while ignoring the failure of marxism, tribal genocide and and the opression of theocracy.

I'm really not sure what you are getting at with regards to cell phone use. You freely admit that you use a cell phone and computers so you very obviously don't give a fuck about the people of Congo.

Cell phones are not a need or necessity - we all got along just fine without them up until few short years ago.
I find it hilarious that you think admiting that you are a hypocrite gives you some moral high ground to lecture the rest of the western world about the evils of modern technology.

Come back here and lecture the rest of us when you have thrown your cell phone away.

At 21/11/10 2:51 am, Anonymous AAMC said...

Nobodies endorsed Marxism, genocide or the oppression of theocracy. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

My point about Colten mining is not that modern technology is evil but that the companies that mine it have a duty to pay appropriately and provide adequate conditions, even if it means a reduction in their desired continual growth. It's the extremes of the market I'm speaking about, but it appears you like to inhabit the extreme BNDD.

By the way, Your language is sounding very emotional!


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