National to arm Police (now Garrett has been discredited, someone has to do raw meat law and order policy)
Collins backs pistols in all police cars
Police Minister Judith Collins says she supports the idea of lock boxes for pistols in all police vehicles. Speaking at the Police Association conference in Wellington today, Ms Collins said the July shooting of two officers in Christchurch had highlighted the risk to police from armed offenders.
Police get 4 hours training with guns and most don’t get a psych report for that and the National Party want to arm 2700 Police cars??? Did I fall asleep and wake up in a Ku Klux Klan rally here? How dare Judith Collins use the Police shootings in Christchurch in July as the justification, in that case two Police Officers executed a random search of a stoners house and were ambushed, the ONLY way guns would have saved those two Police Officers is if the Police Officers had entered the house with guns drawn.
It's hilarious that Crusher Collins in her latest raw meat law and order policy (now that David Garrett has been discredited) argues we need to arm 2700 Police cars because 9 Officers have been shot in 2 years, that's hilarious because so far this year, 18 NZers have died from the revenue gathering polices of Police chases THIS YEAR ALONE. 18 NZers dead in a year from Police policy - nothing to see here, 9 Officers shot in two years (2 being fatal) - Crusher Collins can't arm 2700 Police cars fast enough.
By using the Christchurch shootings example to justify arming Police, Crusher Collins is actually arguing for Police to have the right to randomly search your house with guns drawn. How’s that ‘change’ feeling?
posted by Bomber @ 8:49 am
21 comments
21 Comments:
"in that case two Police Officers executed a random search of a stoners house and were ambushed"
Wrong. It was a search pursuant to a belief that illegal activity was occur on the premises.
Seriously if you want to make a point then getting the facts right would be a good start. You are purposely omitting information here.
Police arming entirely predicated on failed (and flawed) drug policy, especially as it applies to Cannabis. (Hello Napier, Phillipstown! feeling Safer)
Judge Jerry Paradis on his visit to New Zealand in 2008 linked Police claiming cannais consumers are armed as a self serving deception. And that was before Napier and Philipstown.
Cannabis is not criminogenic, whereas its prohibition is.
The fail;ure of media to even mention that we have a Class D provision to the Misuse of Drugs Act (1975) that clearly accomodates the USE of recreational psychoactive 'soft' drugs and the respective Ministers who dabble in drug policy who talk about Class A, B and C without as much as any reference to harm minimising regulation and taxation as passed (muster) by Hon Jim Anderton and his caucus.
If we had put cannabis into the restricted substances regulations Len Snee would still be alive. As would Jan Molennar and Police Dog Gage.
How different would be the conversation around armed Police if National's partner ACT had acted with Consumers and Taxpayers interests at heart.
For those in doubt, and think this is so much looney tunes consider the Editorial in October 2010 edition of the British Medical Journal. It is the Royal Guilds who are advocating cannabis be sold alongside tobacco and alcohol. Not stoners or libertarians. Should we be surprised? The last surviving member of teh Blake Palmer (Sir Geoff's dad?) Committee, Emeritus professor of Pharmacology Fred Fastier called the existing law and its application "deficient". Fred wrote "Drugs and the Law" many yeaars ago. It is still a seminal read.
I'm totally appalled that only it seems like months ago we were cautiously "trialling" Tazers,and now, with no public consultation,this crone can push through draconian bills such as surveillance and guns in cars without even a nod to democratic process-these are society -changing moves,(you're so right about the car chases) and should be very carefully studied-keerist,we deliberate any other idea at length,why so previous with such serious issues?
CIA war on drugs more like. The NACT/NARCOs are merely showing that to maintain social order in a global crisis, all branches of state forces have to be armed. Spread the terror, fight a war for opium, occupy whole countries to destroy coca, wax hysterical about cops getting killed sniffing out dope and whacko, we have a police state to keep the proles down.
Firstly - if you are going to evade the Police and run which in turn leads to you having a nasty accident - I am kinda ok with that. The fact that you try and portray it as some 'revenue gathering exercise' is a little hilarious.
Secondly - as much as I would like to live in a society where we are all lovely to each other and the Police dispatch flowers instead of tickets we don't. The Police are out there doing a pretty shitty job and if they need guns that is also kinda fine with me. This argument that the crims will 'fight fire with fire' is nonsense as they already outgun the Police. I know I sound kinda right wing here but if you point a gun at a cop then you're pretty stupid and may get shot. Hell - at least it saves all that money the crown have to pay to put them away!!!
I am sure with these new measures being implemented training will be increased ... give the Police a bit more credit to do their job or move to Australia ... hmmm now there's a great Police force.
Wrong. It was a search pursuant to a belief that illegal activity was occur on the premises.
Seriously if you want to make a point then getting the facts right would be a good start. You are purposely omitting information here.
The Police had turned up to arrest someone who wasn't at home, these bored Police Officers then 'smelled' weed and used that as their excuse to execute a warrentless search on private property - a totally random event anon. The only way guns would have made this safer would have been if the Police entered that home with guns drawn.
Do we really want random warrentless searches with gun drawn Police? Doesn't that happen in Police States?
Firstly - if you are going to evade the Police and run which in turn leads to you having a nasty accident - I am kinda ok with that. The fact that you try and portray it as some 'revenue gathering exercise' is a little hilarious.
And you are clearly misinformed anon, let's point it out again shall we?
The Goddard report identified that in the last 5 years almost all chase deaths started with minor infringements that would almost certainly have not ended in death with no chase. 1 in 4 chases ends with a bang. We're not talking axe murderers here - we're talking letting aome people get away with being 10k over the limit as the cops allowed before the quota software was bought in. Chase deaths happen inevitably in the first few minutes of chases as people are paniced. A 50% rise in police highway hours (funded by the revenue approach) took highway crash costs from 1.61billion to 1.6 billion - it overrode the safety savings made by a lot of safety engineering. Minister Hawkins signed off use of the quota software in 2003 explained to him by Rob Robinson as "a large increase in tickets" (meeting 30 National Road Safety Committee). The software is a prototype invented in NZ by Dr Guria and others at MoT (it sets district police quotas for drink drive busts and speed tickets) and is likely for roll out in the 2nd world under the tutelage of the new Wellington based agency Roadpol (global police under UN) which Rob Robinson heads up. 3 early reviews in 2005 found that the quota software - a formula created as part of the MOT RAM project "to develop and refine a resource allocation model for road safety" - had reverse to intended effects. It increases crash trauma as the dose of quotas rises.
I await your response Anon. I make the point again that since these changes influenced by revenue gathering combined with the fear Crusher Collins and hard right law and order nutters have created - kids panic and race off. Other countrys have adopted better chase policies (I'm going to assume Anon that you missed the Kim Hill interview with an American Police Officer who had criticised our chase policies on Radio NZ?) yet here you are defending 18 NZers dead this year alone and write off any critiscism of that as, what were your words anon?
The fact that you try and portray it as some 'revenue gathering exercise' is a little hilarious.
...which leads me to the conclusion that you and your unquestioning pro Police apologist bullshit is actually part of the problem.
How come we never see any praise on this site for police like this?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10680531
Seems fair and reasonable, especially given that they have already proved that they only use pepperspray and tasers appropriately and with much oversight and only 1 or two exceptions on the pepper spray front over tens of years.
It would seem ridiculous that when they are responding to reports of a bank robbery or a guy shooting people that they would have to drive back to a station, arm up, then drive all the way back to where they are needed.
"the ONLY way guns would have saved those two Police Officers is if the Police Officers had entered the house with guns drawn."
That's the key point for me....although I'd add "and shot first before asking questions"
Police need a weapon capable of incapacitating vehicles.
Clearly they're deadly to all & sundry when driven at high speeds.
Its high time police were issued rocket launchers.
They're a deterrent at the very least.
Just keep them locked in the patrol car until needed.
That change is feeling great. Finally a government who supports the police, not the criminals. Hopefuly before too long police will be carrying firearms on their person.
Tasers were meant to be a gun substitute, but as civil liberty and other groups predicted they have rapidly become an easy option compliance tool. Why negotiate with dirty filthy ‘crims’ when you can just zap’em.
Arming the bacon squad will I predict:
• lead to an immediate rise in the use of firearms without recourse to the AOS
• lead to an immediate rise in death and injury, don’t forget the boys in blue are taught during their minimal shooter training to aim for the upper trunk, ie heart, not the limbs to merely disable
• lead to an immediate rise in violence against police as people try and get in ‘first’ before sergeant O’Porke can unlock his piece
• lead to more general chaos and fear and loathing
You cannot trust the allegedly highly trained AOS not to blow away innocent citizens so what chance does the standard blue belly have?
Police cried out for tazers just a few years ago,saying that it would mean they wouldn't need the terrible guns,now they want guns too... who would have thunk it...TUI!
Marijuana is not a drug...its a weed
Finally, our police will be like every other forward thinking country.
Pull a gun on a cop, you get shot. Hopefully to death. Simple.
It's a great change I'm feeling, cheers bomber.
Police culture from an ex-cop ...
"When I speak about a police culture, I speak about the environment I have described. It is introverted, self protecting and lacking objectivity. It is a culture which looks after itself and has a certain view of how life should proceed. It is reinforced by drinking and bonding sessions. The 'them and us' ethos becomes tangible. What is more, the culture is working class conservative in its origins. Bigoted and intolerant. Few of its officer corps are university graduates and even fewer hail from private schools. There is no network which pervades the upper echelons of society. The police are insular.
If someone has tattoos or hair too long or dresses the 'wrong' way or does not have 'acceptable' politics, then they are one of 'them' and not to be trusted. Conversely liberals are a menace to stability and are even more dangerous than unemployed Maori"
Police culture = Rotorua police station in the 1980's.
police culture = The police association defending rotten cops.
"Do we really want random warrentless searches with gun drawn Police? Doesn't that happen in Police States?"
Well yes if they suspected a criminal offence was taking place where a member of the public could possibly be hurt e.g. in a suspected domestic violence incident.
Its a pity that you let your visceral hatred of the police get in the way of some very good points which prevents people taking you seriously.
For every bad incident involving police there are literally thousands more where police actually help people and prevent the loss of property and life. Your portrayal of them as gang rapist and trigger happy thugs says more about your attitudes than anything the police have done.
"Do we really want random warrentless searches with gun drawn Police? Doesn't that happen in Police States?"
Is that an example of "visceral hatred of the police"
From where I'm sitting it looks like a question, its a question I've asked before...I play sport with a cop...he asked the same question as well
All of you pathetic Anon’s are fucking stupid. How thick do you need to be to see that these new implementations are not for the betterment of society but that they will destroy us and there is no turning back once we give Police guns! Why do you all want to aspire to be a mini America?
My dad, uncle and most of my dad’s friends were cops in the 60’s-70’s undercover cops at that, the first of their kind to infiltrate the gangs and use drugs with them all while undercover. The police have a deluded mindset about society. Their politics reek of racism, fascism, sexism and most of all they are usually corrupt in some way or aspect or have covered for a mate who has abused the power they are given. Please remember these individuals are everyday boys and girls who go for a few months training, usually uneducated and full of prejudice mixed with huge misconceptions of most aspects of society, solely because they are the ones most exposed to the filthy side of life. But behold, they are clearly aware of the dangers when you enter the force it’s not a holiday.
An example for their delusion came when I asked my dad if Cannabis was dangerous. His reply ‘Definitely worse than any other drug, worse than heroin’ after researching for myself the dangers of Cannabis I learned that it wasn’t at all, it is the complete opposite This ‘war on drugs’ propaganda is what feeds this deluded society and it starts with the law enforcers. It’s the uneducated and misled idiots to turn to guns when they think they need to up the ante. If drugs were legal and out of the gangs hands then none of these cops would have died. Crime would go down immensely and revenue could be gathered by giving citizens the option of what they want to use and when they want to use it. Alcohol is at its cheapest and easiest to get right now that is also a root of society’s problems.
Stop appealing to this police state National are so eagerly determined to enforce and realise guns are not the answer, and everyone who supports their incorporation is signing their true safety away. When the Police wanted tasers it was meant to have cameras on it to watch they weren’t abusing them, there’s only 2-3 of those in NZ, so stop eating the lies and educate yourself!
A random search ended in a random shooting.
The whole incident was pretty fucking random if you ask me..
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