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Friday, October 15, 2010

Arming NZ Police

Support strong for all police to be armed
All police should carry guns, almost 60 per cent of the public and more than 70 per cent of officers believe, a poll shows.

Police Minister Judith Collins said this week that she would support all patrol vehicles carrying pistols in lockboxes. Police Commissioner Howard Broad is preparing a report into arming police officers and will make recommendations at the end of the year. Both have said they don't favour beat officers routinely being armed.

Last night the Police Association issued a poll it commissioned which said 72 per cent of all association members supported general arming. Asked if they supported it two years ago, 47 per cent were in favour.

The survey showed 58 per cent of the public also supported general arming. Association president Greg O'Connor said the results were no surprise.

The response when being critical of the expansion of Police power in NZ is always 'you hate the police' crap. It's so apologist, it's so defensive, it's so sheepishly predictable.

In a liberal progressive democracy where we have fought for civil liberties, it is the responsibility of ALL citizens to question authority.

Look at the case in Christchurch that Crusher Collins has used as her justification to arming 2700 Police cars. Two Police Officers were unable to carry out the arrest warrant they had pumped themselves up for, they smelled someone smoking weed and conducted a warrantless search on some random House and were ambushed. Now this is in no way a defense of the ambush, no one should attack the Police, and when they do they need to be dealt with harshly by the Courts, but to use warrentless random searches of people's homes as the justification to arm the Police is just so intellectually bankrupt it's difficult to take seriously. How would having guns locked in the car have protected those two Officers? Unless they had entered the house with guns drawn, guns in cars would be pointless, is that what we really want in NZ? Cops with 4 hours training entering homes with guns drawn? What kind of redneck, pro police backlash are we seeing here?

The apologist fall back position to unquestioningly hand over more and more power to the Police always astounds me from my fellow citizens. To question authority is not visceral hatred of the police, it is the obligation of all citizens living in a democracy.

Police Officers specially trained in weapons fulfilling the policing philosophy of containment is the solution to the 2 call outs each week that require guns, arming all ill trained Police with guns is simply a recipe for disaster. Think of the thousands of weekly call outs, 2 per week require guns, arming all Police to deal with those two incidents per week is an overkill that defies rational debate and seems to be wedded to some deeper pathology to unquestioningly submit to authority.

I don't, won't and will not do that.

Questioning the rush to arm our Police is a responsibility.


At 15/10/10 1:59 pm, Anonymous Tim2 said...

As one who is opposed to arming the Police (with guns), I find it alarming that the issue is being treated so casually by media, the general public and the 'state apparatus' generally.
Surely something like this should be the subject of a referendum or other means by which the public's attitude can be more accurately guaged.

We need long batons; we need tasers; we need pistols; we need machine guns; we need grenades....

The public seem to forget that the "gang problem"; the "drug problem" - ALL problems have been around for a very long time.
Has the average policeman now become such frikken wooses that they can't deal with things the way that they always have?
They've now got so much absolute shit strapped to their waistbands, I'm surprised half them can walk!

Law and order though - always such a good emotive topic to get people going. It's a bit like that media reporting and initial U.S. public attitudes to the invasion of Iraq. If you were opposed - you were assumed to be unpatriotic.

How about an inquiry into the levels of competence of the Police in recent times before we start giving them more and more power.

Actually no....let's just get real "efficient". Do away with politicians and the judiciary and let the Police make the laws of the land, decide on guilt and allow them anything they need to fight the "WAR on CRIME".

At 15/10/10 2:56 pm, Anonymous Angela said...

I agree. This should be the subject of a referendum, not a Boag-designed-and-commissioned "Opinion Poll".
Wonder who we'll buy our guns from? France, USA, Britain or Russia?. Big money in this contract. OUR money.

At 15/10/10 5:29 pm, Blogger peterquixote said...

I agree Bomber absolutely

At 15/10/10 7:05 pm, Anonymous Tim2 said...

Well I reckon its "seems" all fairly innocuous to Joe Average Public, BUT in actual fact the refusal for Joe Average to participate, couple with one or two politicians who seem to think they have unbridled power (for whatever reason - perhaps even on the basis of their own ego and inflated opinion of themselves) is one of the most dangerous thngs there is.
Coin whatever phrase you like ("lambs to the slaughter" in NZ's case seems appropriate - Bahhhhhh, Bahhhhh).
Rodney facist Hyde: supercity!;
John put-your-finger-in-the-wind-to see-which-way-the-wind-is-blowing-before-you-coment-or-even-commit Key; Crusher-Fugly Collins (and I don;t just mean on the basis that she needs a wheel barow to carry her ass behind her, BUT her inherently UGLY spirit and ideaology);.....pik em out ONE by ONE: Even allowing someone such as a Brownlee - that isn;t exactly the Brains of Britain - theoretical unbridled power.....
For Christ's Sakes "Kiwis"!!!! and you wonder why there is all this shit about "catching up to OZ". There are quite a few Kiwis that DON'T ACTUALLY deserve to!
But PLEASE "Kiwis" - DON'T fucking bleat when it all turns to shit - it's CHANGE you all thought you deserved and were entitle to - and CHANGE a few such as your "Krismatuck"-average bloke-"accessible"-noice-goi PM who learned his ideology parrot feshun (i.e. if this happens - then do that) were smart enough than you to see as an opportunity. The difference between intelligence and animal cunning.
Apathetuck Public
Compliant unquestioning Media
An administration that has an over-inflated opinion of themselves (often based on any inadequate sort of challenge to their bullshit).

Look back in history.

It actually sounds sensational and dramatic, but if you think about it....a growing majority that becomes disadvantaged.....THEY EVENTUALLY kinda get pissed off.
They look for culprits and those to blame.

If Rodney Hyde ever gets strung up from a lampost with a noose around his neck - don't expect me to feel sorry for him or any of his whanau!
Oi Vas Ownlee follwing Ordas Herr Commandant - You can Axe eenie one.

It's all really kind of stupid and weird. The route we have been taking is one that an ONLY hope for stability will be as another state of our "roivils" across the ditch. Forget about trying to "match" them.

At 15/10/10 7:20 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bring it on we need an illegal arms trade here its too hard to get guns on the sly. arming cops means everyone gets used to guns and wants them. Sweeeeet!

At 15/10/10 7:51 pm, Anonymous Johnson said...

"it is the responsibility of ALL citizens to question authority. "

Unless they're from your side of the ideological spectrum, of course.

At 15/10/10 7:58 pm, Anonymous Tim2 said...

And harking back to another thing:
Police chase ends in crash
By SIMON WONG - The Marlborough Express Last updated 18:44 15/10/2010 http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4238646/Police-chase-ends-in-crash

Let's GET the little bugger shal we?
Kill! Maim! Destroy!
After all - he broke the LAW! - (just like that off-duty cop I saw this morning heading home to Pram continuously and substntially exceeding the speed limit; failing to keep left; indiscriminately changing lanesl; ..etc.)!
but yes! This WAR on boy racers is so important. HAD ME THAT GRENADE LAUNCHER CRUSHER - I'll learn the little cnut! Quick!!! Before he notices what a fugly specimen I am - and before he talks to his Dad who might reveal how he used to smoke a heap of Dak with that Natty Nathan guy in years gone by).
oooooh Nathe! you naughty boy! but its those little boi racers we goota get aye!

At 15/10/10 10:11 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lets not forget the 19 year old father shot by NZ police from been the wrong colour, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

Innocent people already die as a result of ‘willie nillie’ police shot-outs in New Zealand - and this is in the hand of the highly trained professionals. Do we really want to start handing these guns out to 18 year olds straight out of police college??

As someone who has seen police culture from both sides I think we should be very scared about this push to arm!

At 16/10/10 4:18 am, Anonymous AAMC said...

It's a pity the right suffer from such an intellectual vacuum around the concept of the prevention of crime through endorsing policy which strives towards greater equity in our society. When your neo liberal agenda actively bolsters the underclass they deal with the fallout with private prisons and guns. Don't we have an opportunity with the hindsite our antipodean timewarp affords us to see that America (the only country whith a higher incarceration rate than us) is not a model we should have any desire to emulate. There are a lot of other more functional countries in the world, please National, broaden your worldview!

At 16/10/10 4:33 am, Anonymous AAMC said...

What I don't get is all of the arguments I've had with right wing posters on this blog proclaiming the glories of the wars we have fought in order to bring freedom and democracy to the world. They rant about China and Russia and the glory of having defeated Fascism, a defeat which resulted in Europe's adoption of liberal social democracy and the advent of proportional representation in order to prevent more tyrants. And yet they fight social democracy in favor of the Washington consensus, advocate an antiquated electoral system and defend so passionately our own path to Totalitarianism. Hitler had the excuse of the
Jews, America the Muslims and we seem to want to follow suit cause of the weed and the gangs and the boogy man, all to win the game of vote getting. Anon posters et al, are you capable of seeing the contradictions in your thinking, you seem so eager to tow the company line. THINK!

At 16/10/10 10:10 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where do you get the figure of two incidents a week requiring firearms? Oh tha's right, made it up. Try two or more a day in Auckland alone Bomber. At least. The police should be armed.

At 16/10/10 10:55 am, Anonymous Grant said...

Judith Collins needs to be quizzed, on live radio/TV on exactly how many New Zealanders she expects to die at the hands of Police in the 12 months following their arming. Becos arming the Police means more people will die, there is no doubt about that. So wht figure to the govt have in mind - and if they don't have a figure then do the public take that to mean they do not give a shit ? Lets see how fucking tough Judith Collins is after the first gunfight in a suburban street - or a shopping mall ...

At 16/10/10 8:40 pm, Anonymous Tim2 said...

Well someone has nailed it (Idiot/Savant in a recent post). "a police culture of wanting to punish people for contempt of cop"
That's the problem EXACTLY. That is why Greg and the boys think it's time for them to make the laws, more weapons, more laws, more power. The problem is that they have actually forgotten who and WHAT they are - they are the Police. Our servants and law enforcers. They aren't law makers and NOR do they have any better rights than anyone. If anything they should see themsleves in the light of the martyr.
I think there are probably various policing agencies SOMEWHERE around the world whose "brand" is to SERVE and PROTECT.
It's a public they are supposed to serve and protect.
Still.. if petrol stations (and politicians) have gotten into self-service, poor service, self-indulgence, self-aggrandisement, media wanna-be stardom - WHY not the apologist and dolt Greg and those he represents.
For a long time now, I've though the Police can be their own worst enemy, AND poorly represented.
Imagine the "C-H-A-N-G-E" the Police Assoc could achieve with a "rebranding" and a frontman with a smidgeon of intelligence.
Greg could even go back under cover again (perhaps catching dirty old men in a park somewhere)

At 17/10/10 8:59 am, Blogger Bomber said...

Where do you get the figure of two incidents a week requiring firearms? Oh tha's right, made it up. Try two or more a day in Auckland alone Bomber. At least. The police should be armed.

I'm sorry clown, what?

Hundreds of police cars routinely carry arms
Hundreds of police cars carry gun safes, and central Auckland officers draw weapons from their vehicles nearly twice a week, Herald inquiries have found.


"it is the responsibility of ALL citizens to question authority. "
Unless they're from your side of the ideological spectrum, of course.

Johnson, how many times do I have to point out why you don't get posted on Tumeke? You have this year posted your fantasies about my suicide and torture, I've told you that wasn't acceptable and that in NZ we can disagree with each other without articulating violence towards each other. If I went onto Cactus Kates site, or Kiwiblogh or Gotcha and posted my suicide fantasies and torture fantasies they would ban me in a second, yet you claim it's something else other than your violence fantasies preventing you from getting posted here.

Look I've told you several times all you need to do is apologize for those posts and you are free to post here, if you are too embarrassed to publicly apologize, you can email me personally. You clearly want to have your voice in the debate Johnson, let's be honest you've certainly toned down your posts since I pulled you up on your use of violence, so just man up and admit you were out of line and you can join the adults, until then you can scratch and howl outside at the moon.

At 26/10/10 9:05 am, Blogger Watchmanz said...

It is the responsibility of all people in a democratic society to call authority to account and demand it be transparent. This already happens routinely within New Zealand - every New Zealander has the right to state their view and call elected leaders to account regularly through the electoral process.

The police are not the servants of every New Zealander. They are the servants of the Government of the day. They answer to the Government, through the Police Minister, alone.

The question of generally arming the Police Force is a decision for the Police Minister, Prime Minister and, ultimately, Parliament.


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