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Monday, August 23, 2010

Turning moderate Muslim prayer rooms into terrorist command centers


More Americans say Obama is Muslim
WASHINGTON — Roughly one in five Americans wrongly says President Barack Obama is a Muslim, according to two new US opinion polls out Thursday amid a furor over a planned mosque near New York's "Ground Zero."

They really are a nation of morons aren't they? America doesn't deserve to be the last superpower, they are simply too stupid, the fact that one in five wrongly think Obama is a Muslim is amazing on its own, but this idiotic farce over a prayer room opened 2 and a half blocks from 'ground zero' in New York is just the icing on a shitcake.

I blame Fox News for the collective stupidity of Americans, two pundits recently on Fox had this to say about this prayer room...

Newt Gingrich: "Nazis don’t have the right to put up a sign next to the Holocaust Museum in Washington."



How the fuck Newt Gingrich manages to compare a moderate Muslim Mosque to the extermination of 6 million Jews beggers belief, but it gets better, Dick Morris then claimed on Fox that this moderate Muslim center would in fact become a "terrorist command center". WTF? Fox News is more a terrorist command centre than this Mosque!

American stupidity is hilarious at the best of times, this week has taken it to whole new levels. Are these people serious or are they just ignorant clowns?

15 Comments:

At 23/8/10 2:46 pm, Anonymous Sdm said...

On what basis do you claim the mosque to be moderate?

Do you consider Sharia law to be moderate?

Did you know that Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who is the founder of the proposed mosque, publishes an index which compares countries on their compliance with Sharia Law?

On the basis that the mosque is founded by an advocate of Sharia Law, and given that same law condones death by stoning, condones the abuse of woman, and encourages Jihad against non belivers, will you recant your position that the mosque is 'moderate'.

Or do you view Sharia Law as 'moderate'?

 
At 23/8/10 3:00 pm, Blogger Bomber said...

YAWN - Oh scotty, have you had too much coffee today? Yes I think he's a moderate, and his interpretation of Sharia law is moderate...Much of Rauf's work is admirable. In his writings on sharia, he has consistently argued that Islam should preserve what he believes is the true spirit of Koranic law -- justice, equality and tolerance -- while discarding tenets that promote the subjugation of women or hostility to non-Muslims. In his 2004 book "What's Right With Islam," he suggests that the U.S. system of government may be "the form of governance that best expresses Islam's original values and principles." Muslim Leaders of Tomorrow, a program run by the American Society for Muslim Advancement co-founded by Rauf and Khan, has included such dissident voices as Irshad Manji, a lesbian feminist strongly critical of traditional Islam....

now while this same article also points out some of his flaws, I think your fox news inspired hate of everything Islamic is a bit of a yawn and a bit beneath you.

 
At 23/8/10 7:26 pm, Anonymous fatty said...

"and given that same law condones death by stoning, condones the abuse of woman, and encourages Jihad against non belivers"

Last time I checked most conservative Christians in the U.S.A.(and many here) believe the same....
Death penalty in USA.
Abuse of women is subjective and arguments can be made that Muslim women hold relatively more power than western women (although understanding that will involve the ability to hold a non-ethnocentric view).
Encourages Jihad?...aren't the Christians invading and dropping bombs on Iraq and Afghanistan?

 
At 23/8/10 8:22 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is already a mosque near ground zero. Must have been a slow news week in the US.

 
At 24/8/10 8:14 am, Anonymous Pascal's bookie said...

Opponents of this centre agree with OBL that good Muslims cannot live in a secular democracy, and that the USA is at war with Islam.

Why do opponents of this centre hate our freedoms?

Who is the second largest shareholder of Newscorp?

A wahhibist, that's who.

 
At 24/8/10 8:43 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Abuse of women is subjective and arguments can be made that Muslim women hold relatively more power than western women (although understanding that will involve the ability to hold a non-ethnocentric view).

Hahaha.
Fatty you old cultural relativist.

So female circumcision is empowering to women is it fatty?

Females denied an education is empowering to women is it fatty?

Females denied voting rights is empowering to women is is fatty?

Females denied the right to drive empowering to women is it fatty?

Females denied the right to talk to whoever they want is empowering to women is it fatty?

Females doused in acid for doing so is empowering to women is it fatty?

Seriously fatty, that cultural relativism argument is a slippery slope towards justifying everything.

Now if you had said that the fashion industry in the western world is just as coercive as wearing a burqa, then you would be making at least a little bit of sense.

Try again.

 
At 24/8/10 9:09 am, Blogger Bomber said...

Hahaha.
Fatty you old cultural relativist.

So female circumcision is empowering to women is it fatty?

Females denied an education is empowering to women is it fatty?

Females denied voting rights is empowering to women is is fatty?

Females denied the right to drive empowering to women is it fatty?

Females denied the right to talk to whoever they want is empowering to women is it fatty?

Females doused in acid for doing so is empowering to women is it fatty?

Seriously fatty, that cultural relativism argument is a slippery slope towards justifying everything.

Now if you had said that the fashion industry in the western world is just as coercive as wearing a burqa, then you would be making at least a little bit of sense.


Ahhh, the good old 'war for feminism' argument used by anonymous posters, yes I've always seen the M-16 as an extension of Germaine Greer's philosophy - using feminism to defend war would be hilarious of you weren't so wide eyed.

Try again anon.

Try again.

 
At 24/8/10 9:27 am, Anonymous Pablo said...

Bomber:

You are right and wrong on this one. You are right to note the insidious, negative influence of the "Murdochification" (sic) of the US news, which includes Fox, the New York Post and the Wall Street Journal as major Murdoch outlets (running the gamut from high brow to inane and banal). The irony is that Murdoch uses Saudi investors as additional cash cows for his holdings (see Frank Rich's August 22 column in the New York Times for a good expose of these).

You are wrong to tar all US citizens with the Fox brush. I am in the US at the moment and it is quite clear that a majority resent the the return to Jim Crow/neo-McCarthyite style rhetoric and the demonisation of Obama as well as anything non-White and non-Christian. They believe that the country is better than that, and in a perverse way this xenophobic scare-mongering could backfire on the GOP in November. Remember, 54 million Americans voted for Obama and although disappointed by some aspects of his administration, they have not jumped ship just yet. Bigoted, xenophobic, racist fear-mongering just reminds them what the GOP really has to offer.

For what it is worth my take on this issue is here: www.kiwipolitico.com/2010/08/in-the-us-a-return-to-primordialism.

 
At 24/8/10 12:01 pm, Anonymous fatty said...

In some respects Muslim women have less social freedom, but are we any less of a sexist violent society?
We still beat our wives and rape them.
Our education was incredibly sexist and is only now beginning to change, but jobs and pay rates are still male dominated.
We don't do female circumcision, but we got our teenager girls killing and starving themselves cause they don't meet our expectations.
We allow women to vote and drive....whoop-de-fucken-do. (How many years of voting, and only 2 female leaders, even then they had to show more male than female characteristics to get in)
You have to remember that Muslim women hold a position of power in society that western women don't come close to.
The family forms the foundation of Muslim society, its the core, and women hold a very important position. To us its just cleaning and cooking, but its the most important job in the Muslim world, without it society would crumble.

What about us...what's a woman's position?
Western woman apparently have freedom?
I doubt it, they must help earn the money, come home and do the cooking and cleaning.
The work is shit pay, bad contracts, and ironically, usually cleaning or cooking.

"Seriously fatty, that cultural relativism argument is a slippery slope towards justifying everything."

I don't use it to justify anything, I oppose sexism in both the Muslim and Western world....cultural relativism allows a person to see all aspects of power and control from all angles.

"...the fashion industry in the western world is just as coercive as wearing a burqa..."

Don't believe everything Bill O'Reilly tells you...the burqa/veil is often a form of empowerment for women in the Arab world....there's that ethnocintric view I was talking about.

http://icarusfilms.com/cat97/t-z/veiled.html

 
At 24/8/10 7:30 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We still beat our wives and rape them.

Err, it is illegal to do so though fatty.
You do know that, don't you?

Our education was incredibly sexist and is only now beginning to change, but jobs and pay rates are still male dominated.

Sure, but females can be educated and employed here, remember?

We don't do female circumcision, but we got our teenager girls killing and starving themselves cause they don't meet our expectations.

Haha, I gave you that one fatty.

Though I really wouldn't compare anorexia with the forced removal of a girls labia and clitoris.

We allow women to vote and drive....whoop-de-fucken-do.

Women voting not a big deal for you fatty?
Really?
Ah well, try and take away womens right to vote, and then you will see how much THEY value it.

You have to remember that Muslim women hold a position of power in society that western women don't come close to.

Explain what that actually means fatty.

The family forms the foundation of Muslim society, its the core, and women hold a very important position. To us its just cleaning and cooking, but its the most important job in the Muslim world, without it society would crumble.

Did a muslim women tell you that fatty?

But hey, western women cook and clean too, and we in the west value our domestic goddess's.
It's just that we men in the west can cook and clean for ourselves, as can muslim man.
They just choose not to.

What about us...what's a woman's position?

Whatever she wants it to be fatty.
Isn't that beautiful?

Western woman apparently have freedom?

Yep.
A lot more than the average Muslim women does.

I doubt it, they must help earn the money, come home and do the cooking and cleaning.

Or not.
She is free to choose, you understand.

The work is shit pay, bad contracts, and ironically, usually cleaning or cooking.

A) A lot of work is shit.
B) But the point is, women can work.


I don't use it to justify anything, I oppose sexism in both the Muslim and Western world....cultural relativism allows a person to see all aspects of power and control from all angles.

Cultural relativism allows one to excuse a behaviour, precisely because it is a different culture.

Female circumcism is morally, ethically and culturally wrong, as is the oppression of women in the name of religion.
Any religion.

Don't believe everything Bill O'Reilly tells you...the burqa/veil is often a form of empowerment for women in the Arab world....there's that ethnocintric view I was talking about.

Having travelled in Iran/Turkey/Dubai/Afghanistan/Pakistan/India...I would have asked these women under the veil, but I was not allowed to talk with them, their husbands wouldn't let me.

And the arguments of womens empowerment under the veil doesn't hold, if they have NO CHOICE in the act of wearing one.

Oppress a person long enough, and they find a justification for their oppression, to make sense of their world.

 
At 24/8/10 8:08 pm, Anonymous Johnson said...

"I am in the US at the moment and it is quite clear that a majority resent blah blah blah lies and hysteria, the Fabian way."

Not if the polling is to be believed.

Bye bye Pelosi.

 
At 25/8/10 2:00 pm, Anonymous fatty said...

Anon:

All you did there was take each individual point I made and disregard the argument as a whole....I can do that with ANY argument by anybody....its called taking something out of context.
More or less mirrors your view of the muslim cultre, so I should have expected it.
It shows an inability to understand a view from a perspective that isn't your own. Put simply, its simplistic.

I especially like the way you paste my comment, then ask a question, then paste my next comment which already answers your question;

"You have to remember that Muslim women hold a position of power in society that western women don't come close to.

Explain what that actually means fatty.

The family forms the foundation of Muslim society, its the core, and women hold a very important position. To us its just cleaning and cooking, but its the most important job in the Muslim world, without it society would crumble.

Did a muslim women tell you that fatty?"

-yes Anon, a Muslim women told me that....ironically she is from Turkey....she chooses to wear a veil sometimes....and she was allowed to talk to me.

Remember my argument is not that Muslim woman have freedom, I never said that, I questioned the relative power held within their own societies between western women and Muslim women.

 
At 25/8/10 2:42 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obama go bye bye now

So ends that great black hope which like so many other liberals is simply a vacuity of principles.

 
At 26/8/10 12:19 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon:

All you did there was take each individual point I made and disregard the argument as a whole....I can do that with ANY argument by anybody....its called taking something out of context.


What context fatty?
You are the one trying to contextualise the issue, by saying that for all the rights western women have, they pale into insignificance compared to the rights of Muslim women to cook and clean.

I mean, are you serious?

More or less mirrors your view of the muslim cultre, so I should have expected it.

I beg your pardon?
All I have done is put up concrete examples of the rights of Western women compared to the lack of rights for Muslim women.

I haven't actually expressed any view, just stated facts.

You don't know jack about what I think of Muslim culture, fatty, so don't try and patronise me.

Do you want a pissing contest fatty?

It shows an inability to understand a view from a perspective that isn't your own. Put simply, its simplistic.

What does that mean fatty?
You think it is simplistic that I think it is wrong that little girls labia and clitorus is cut off?

You think it is simplistic that I think it is wrong that certain muslim girls can't attend school?

Seriously?
Explain yourself better, because it is coming across as you excusing atrocities simply because you don't think other cultures should criticise other cultures.

Pure cultural relativism.

The family forms the foundation of Muslim society, its the core, and women hold a very important position. To us its just cleaning and cooking, but its the most important job in the Muslim world, without it society would crumble.

A) Fatty, what you just said is applicable to every culture/religion.

Cooking and cleaning is not more important in certain muslim societies, it's just a yoke that is used to bound women to servitude.

You, my friend, a swallowing a bullshit lie spun by muslim men, in order to keep their women oppressed.

B) Now answer this fatty.
What happens if a muslim women doesn't want to cook and clean?

Does she have a choice?

-yes Anon, a Muslim women told me that....ironically she is from Turkey....she chooses to wear a veil sometimes....and she was allowed to talk to me.

Haha.

Considering Turkey is actually a republic state since 1928, and muslim women are allowed to vote/drive/be educated, and, CHOOSE to wear the veil or not, then your'e right, it is quite ironic.

Remember my argument is not that Muslim woman have freedom, I never said that, I questioned the relative power held within their own societies between western women and Muslim women.

What power can a women truly have fatty, if she has no freedom to pursue her dreams/goals/aspirations?

Freedom to cook and clean and no more, is not really power is it fatty?

And a gilded cage is still a cage, isn't it fatty?

I love Islamic culture, and have travelled extensively in many Muslim states.

I just hate the way muslim men treat muslim women in the name of religion, thats all.

 
At 27/8/10 8:27 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It really is a pity you censor reasonable posts when you or your mates are losing an argument.

In real life when you are losing an argument, do you continue debating, or just stand up and walk away?

Really disappointing.

 

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