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Monday, July 12, 2010

$1.50 [UPDATED: $2.00]

I'm glad I took the time to look at the ASB a/c. It shows that Westpac are charging 75c for using their ATMs; but not just for the "Usage WD" withdrawal. They are also charging an additional 75c for "Usage Enq" - which must be to get the balance.

It's a wanky, cunty, shitty banking fucking scam. These Aussie banks have been hit by the Commerce Commission before and I hope they get a kicking in a class action case over this sneaky rort too. The cheeky pricks. They can flash up advertisements and gimmicky crap on the screen, but they will not give the user the courtesy of telling them how much it is costing.

AT NO POINT during the transaction on the screen, or notified anywhere else at the ATM, does it say what charges are being deducted or why. The reason they don't tell you - why they conceal from the user the amount they are charging and what they are charging for - is because if we found out we would not use it... ever. We would see it for the rip-off it is.

And now I'm going to make sure I never use another bank's ATM unless it is absolutely the only option left available.

I bet some poor bastard has had, say $20.70, checked the balance - because they aren't sure what side of $20 the a/c is at - and then finds they can't get anything out because now the a/c is at $19.95. Wankers.

UPDATE | 10:30PM Wednesday: I'll pass this along to the Banking Ombudsman so they can have a chuckle to themselves (because I doubt the self-interested self-policing unit would care at all). From ASB's schedule of fees:No exemptions for the other bank ATM transactions. But please note I accept that there is going to be an inter-bank agreement and a fee charged - but they have to tell the customer at the time on the screen how much it is and it has to be reasonable because at the moment charging 75c just to check the balance is an abuse of the cartel's position.

Westpac's fees are even worse! $1 just to get a balance at a non-Westpac ATM. Why the 25c difference with ASB? Who is gouging who? They are all gouging the customer via each other. Westpac customers are getting stiffed big time - as are the National Bank's card holders:and the National Bank's owners, the ANZ are just as bad:
Ditto shame for the BNZ:And fuck you very much too, Kiwibank:

UPDATE | Saturday 9pm: Just read the fine print on the Banking Ombudsman's site and you have to raise it with the bank first - then it says they won't investigate a bank's standard fees and charges policy.So that means I can complain about them not saying what the fee is - but not the extortionate amount of the charge itself. That's self-policing for you.



At 13/7/10 8:44 am, Anonymous Gosman said...


The reason you are charged for using another bank's ATM is because that bank is charging your bank everytime you use their machine. It is therefore YOUR bank that charges you the fee not the other bank.

The other bank doesn't have any authority to debit your account and can only recoup usage fees in bulk from the other bank. This is also the reason it doesn't notify you of the fee at the time of the transaction because a particular bank's ATM does not keep track of what fees all the other banks charge for individual transactions.

Your problem is not with Westpac, because they are just doing what every other bank in New Zealand are doing, but with ASB who has set your other bank ATM usage fee. It is also not a uniquely Aussie bank issue as Kiwibank also charges people for the same thing. In there case it is 50 cents per ATM transaction.

At 13/7/10 11:36 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually, ASB did a well advised warning of this about a year ago well before the charges came into affect. This was done by website, by personalised mail and by newspaper advertisements.
They also provided a comprehensive list of ATM's throughout the city suburbs.

At 13/7/10 12:06 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This has been around for a while now and is common knowledge.
Yes, anon and gosman are both right.

Bit like shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted...

At 13/7/10 12:17 pm, Blogger Tim Selwyn said...

Gosman: The party listed on the statement as receiving the 75c is Westpac. I know that the banks set these fees amongst themselves and to some extent will be reciprocal, but your excuses as to why an ATM that knows your balance, knows which card you are using and from which bank it comes and can issue all sorts of statements using the information from those cards and has capacity for some information sharing (between banks) cannot - designed so that it will not - tell you how much they are charging you is a cunty, wanky bullshit rip off.

Anon 11:36am: ASB comms drone: you are evading the question. The ATM should declare on the screen - beforehand - what the charges are going to be. Simple. The customer shouldn't have to find out the charges in the fine print in the public notices section of a newspaper, it should be there on the screen at the time. The only reason you don't do this, ASB comms drone, is not that you can't (of course you can) it's because you know that if you did tell people the truth, straight up, about what these mundane services are costing the customer would see it for the gouging rip off it is. But thanks at least for not trying to sell any insurance with that.

At 13/7/10 12:24 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah well, its ok for some people who can afford that $1.50!

Bloody hell. What about some of us that are on a fixed, limited income! Aye?? Every cent counts. $1.50 is a lot of money! So think of that when you jafas are drinking your flat whites in those posh cafes in the sun, relaxing and talking shit all day while us poor guys on a benefit can't afford that "luxury." We have to stay home and drink a cup of tea.
Some mornings I cry just to get out of bed. Its so depressing knowing that I have nothing to do and all day to do it in!
That $1.50 could buy me a loaf of bread! Maybe a scoop of chips for my tea. I could even get me a pie for my lunch.

Banks are a rip off! Period!

At 13/7/10 12:42 pm, Anonymous Gosman said...

Westpac doesn't receive the 75 cents that ASB has charged you.

All banks usually set a fee for all other banks whose customers use their ATM's. They will then work out at some stage how much each bank owes them or if they owe other banks for their customers using the other banks ATM. They will then all settle up in bulk.

The amount each bank charges other banks is not insignificant, I believe it runs into millions of dollars per year. The fee you are charged is your bank deciding to recoup some, all, or even more than, that fee from you the customer who they will have to pay for.

As for the ATM displaying the fee at the time of the transaction I can tell you that it is not as easy as you would like to think. The easiest solution might be for an ATM to display a meesage at the time a card from another bank in entered stating that the customer will likely be charged an other bank ATM fee but this still won't be able to let the customer know how much that fee is going to be.

If you still wanted the ATM to display the actual fee then every bank's ATM infrastructure will have to be altered to accomodate the fee regime of other banks to either be stored in the ATM, (and updated on a regular basis), or passed down at the time of the transaction. This is not a small task as you can probably appreciate as it involves chaging the downloads and messaging protocols used in ATM's.

So in short, the best way to find out about the fees you are likely to incur from using other banks ATM's is to ask you own bank what they will charge you. Blaming the bank that has happily allowed you to use it's ATM machine is missing the target.

At 13/7/10 1:37 pm, Anonymous Gosman said...


What happened to my last post on this topic?

I think I explained quite succinctly the reason for the fee, who is actually responsible for providing this information (i.e. ASB in your case), and also why it would be technically difficult to let you know of the fee while the transaction was being performed.

If you could dredge up that post and put it up here it would be great as I think it will clarify any misunderstandings people have on this topic.

As for people who think the amount they are paying is too much then I'd suggest you do as Tim has stated he is doing and only use your own bank's ATM's for transactions in future.

At 13/7/10 2:41 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The customer shouldn't have to find out the charges in the fine print in the public notices section of a newspaper, it should be there on the screen at the time.

Of course they should.
If the customer is so stupid that they don't do due diligence when they choose a bank then they deserve to be ripped off.

If you're not happy with your bank, choose another one.

Not happy with any banks, use your mattress.

At 13/7/10 3:14 pm, Blogger Rangi said...

The exact situation you described has happened to me before. Rip off pricks!

At 13/7/10 4:40 pm, Anonymous Gosman said...

@ Rangi.

Who do you think is ripping you off here? Is it your own bank or the one whose ATM you are using?

The bank who invested time and money on an ATM infrastructure surely shouldn't be expected to subsidise the behaviour of non-customers.

The bank charging you the fee is trying to recoup the cost involved and encourage customers to use their own ATM's instead of competitors.

You as a customer still have the ability to freely decide whether or not to use other bank ATM's to carry out a transaction.

Noone is ripping anyone off here as far as I can tell or if they are then pretty much all banks are doing it.

At 14/7/10 12:18 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know what the hell your problem is. If you are an ASB person, then use an ASB machine. Simple. There's plenty around. It's not anyones fault but your own if you only want to walk to the nearest ATM and not give a hoot about what bank it is.

And to the drip that was complaining about his pie for lunch and chips for tea... (Sounds like someone I know)
Take my advice and stop feeling sorry for yourself and GET A FUCKEN JOB!! Otherwise, it's simple. Get left behind in life and be a looser.

At 15/7/10 12:00 pm, Anonymous Gosman said...

If you look at most of those fee structures Tim you will see that your bank is at the moderate end of the scale. You should also note that the other bank ATM fee is not even the biggest fee you could be hit with. Kiwibank charges $6 for withdrawing cash via your Visa Debit card over the counter.


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