The nuclear cloak of invisibility
Iranians, are bad, m'kay... they want nukes, m'kay, and that's destablising, m'kay to the Middle East m'kay... m'kay, so that makes them bad, m'kay... the Iran regime is bad, m'kay... Armeddinnerjacket is a bad man, m'kay...
Can't see our very good pals the Americans so much as even mentioning all the evidence in the 51st state. Watch —
See no Dimona, hear no Dimona, speak no Dimona
Nothing to see here, Sheriff. Just some holiday snaps of a fertilizer factory or something. Nothing to see here...
- that's a pétanque ball.
- it's still a pétanque ball, but don't touch it.
- and that's just a smoke detector, that's what that radioactive symbol is, it's a smoke detector, because when you run a 
- Lithium 6 production, ah, good for healthy bones and... trace element for goats, and... stuff...
- they didn't want to get the pétanque balls wet... because they rust, so they put them in here and they have to have these gloves to handle them... because the... manager... is a clean freak - yes, and he gets very particular about things and anyway he's gone and left it in there... and that explains that.
OK, yes it did say on the door "Plutonium Separation Plant Control Room", but that's Gary! That's Gary's joke. It's Gary having fun again. He is a card. He really is a card, and, no - no that's ah, that's fertilizer stuff in there, lots of trace elements and stuff - not worth looking at really. Yawn! Talk about yawn. Bor-ing! So boring. Let's go back outside now, eh... nothing to see here.
posted by Tim Selwyn @ 1:32 pm
17 comments
17 Comments:
Israel has nuclear weapons - I think we can all submit to the fact now - even if not openly acknowledged.
Israel has the moral right to nuclear weapons to defend themselves - even though they are a bone fide terrorist state.
But Iran does not have the right to develop even the peaceful use of nuclear energy, let alone for defense - even though they have not invaded anyone else in living memory; rather they have been invaded by the US backed Saddam in the 1980s.
Moreover, Iran is run nothing along the lines of the old Iraq - obviously they have many practices that would be unacceptable to Westerners - as is their right - but opposition is tolerated, protests are tolerated, to a degree that would have been simply unthinkable in the old Iraq. They even have elections (which by the way were not stolen by Ahmadinejad).
So this hissy fit over Iran exposes the crude and racist hypocrisy of the West - coloured people not grown up enough to play with matches, only white people are.
Obama is turning out to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. He is the perfect frontman for US imperialism - a man of color, who understands people of color, who once genuinely sided with the weak and oppressed (even if in a practical sense this meant nothing), has obviously disarmed a lot of people over the world.
Heck, even I find it harder to rail against US policy because of Obama. An ingenious stroke by the people who are really in charge of the American empire.
Wayne, you're hilarious. The CIA was behind 911, right?
David Lange’s postscript to Nuclear Free the N.Z WAY PAGE 210 states that he sees no new assumption of a threat for 40 years emerging for us as America will be the sole superpower for that long at least. What about them posing a threat to us?
Well they have in my opinion already. Consider that in My Life he goes further and states that in the future there really won’t be any foreseeable threat, because they would have worked something out like Matthew Hooten’s Danish Solution. This is the neither confirm nor deny fallacy that they no longer possess nuclear weapons on their nuclear powered ships. This from someone who has booted us out of our defence security arrangement with our closest neighbours the Australians. Should we trust them?
John Howard invoked Anzus after 9/11, and was there commemorating what should have been the 50th anniversary of the treaty , although our membership ‘fell into abeyance' in 1986 when we refused to accept visiting NUCLEAR WARSHIPS. TRUE BELIEVER, JOHN HOWARD, GEORGE BUSH AND THE "AMERICAN ALLIANCE".PAGE 2; Lange said he did not want to be defended by 'totalitarian' nuclear weapons. If we couldn’t say no and stay friends, what use was that. Good friends should disagree on occasions otherwise the friendship is merely fair weather friends of the type Pamela Anderson takes to bed with her. He said a friend had been attacked and he was actually in the country at the time. Neither of the two crucial premises in Howard’s argument for war can be relied upon. That supporting the Americans and not us was vital to Australians security was wrong headed. There were no weapons of mass destruction like in Qom’s holy city right now either. American and Australian and British and Canadian first world English speaking democracies actions in Afghanistan have eroded their authority, prestige and credibility. The threat posed by weapons of mass destruction , in hindsight has proved to be a mirage, a dangerous so-called legal security council type pretext of the five permanent veto rights members that Iran wants changed. It sets out a dangerous precedent for their unilateral “international community” attacks. Pre-emptive war is the BUSH DOCTRINE and should not be Obama’s legacy either. The diplomacy leading up to this possible all out assault on Iran by Britain, France and the U.S is undermining the contribution they want to make to the U.N, a vital if flawed institution if Gaddafi throwing the rule book back over his head at them is to be believed, and why shouldn’t it?
No,the CIA and MI5 were behind the coup that toppled Iran’s democratically elected government in 1953. The claim that Iran is seeking nukes is just the usual bad noise used to justify aggression against enemies of the west.
I rekon the dudes long-term ambition must be nuclear weapons. If I walked in his shoes, I'd want 'em for self defence. Still, not an excuse for the U.S. to invade.
Wayne: you said "but opposition is tolerated, protests are tolerated" yes they are, all those images of protests being suppressed and the political prisoners are just imperialist propaganda aren't they?
Another comfortable little leftist sitting in his western liberal democracy defending a regime that engages in murder, mass censorship and imprisonment to stay in power.
In case you didn't notice Wayne, "coloured" people have had nuclear weapons for decades. China since the 1960s, India from the early 1970s and Pakistan more recently. Funnily enough, none of the above have threatened to wipe out other UN member states.
However, it's nice to engage in onanism comfortably in a world that is light years away from Iran, willfully ignoring that Iranians can't even approach the freedom you have to make such choices.
Remarkable how people can be such apologists for a regime, that is barely democratic (what democracy only lets the state vet the candidates?), that does not respect freedom of speech or religion (don't even talk of renouncing Islam for that is a crime), that executes more than any besides China, including teenagers who fall foul of the repressive laws on sexual conduct.
Or is this just an extension of the "I hate USA, therefore the USSR must be good" bullshit that the Cold War spawned? Now the USSR is gone, any state that is a pariah must be "ok"? The willingness of Western so-called "liberals" to tolerate the repression of Iranians is astonishing and disgusting.
The prerequisite for liberty is security and prosperity so sanctions should be lifted and threats against Iran should be ceased. The prerequisite for authoritarianism is poverty and insecurity so the threats to bomb Iran and sanctions are not helping the Iranian people in any way. If the we do in fact care about the Iranian people (doubtful) then we should be trading with them and interacting with them in the hope that our values will prove themselves superior and they will be adopted. This will take a long time.
Funnily enough, none of the above have threatened to wipe out other UN member states.
They got the bomb, they don't need to...
It's worth recalling that in recent weeks Obama and Clinton were putting some pressure on PM Netanyahu and Israel to seek some way to move the peace process forward. EVERY TIME someone tries to do that, we are very swiftly moved on to the dire Iranian threat.....the pattern has been repeated so often over the past 10 years I'm amazed it isn't reported on as "Here we go again!".....but it isn't...
Israel has been threatening to unilaterally nuke Iran since at least 2002....and Iran has always responded...by saying any attacker would be wiped off the face of the earth. These Iranian statements are almost always reported without any reference to what they were responding to. over and over and over this cycle has gone on....and the media are still willful dupes....and make dupes of most of the rest of us.
I have little time for lying manipulating killers.....no matter what flag they drape themselves in.
However, it's nice to engage in onanism comfortably in a world that is light years away from Iran, willfully ignoring that Iranians can't even approach the freedom you have to make such choices.
Idiotic statement - Iranians by and large support their government - even if they don't have exactly the same sort of 'freedom' that Westerners have.
They are most likely happy with laws proscribing homosexuality, in the same way the vast majority of Westerners are happy with laws proscribing child pornography.
Most Muslims want a society that would reflect Islamic values. It is utterly naive (and arrogant) for Westerners to believe that Muslims at heart want the same things that Westerners want.
If that was the case, you would not have them going ape shit over a few cartoons,nor would you have the widespread sympathy for Osama Bin Laden that there is among Muslims.
How Iranians run Iran, how they organize their own affairs is entirely their own business. I really don't think they will miss radical feminism, gay adoptions, or rap music.
The fact is, the populace in places like Egypt, Syria, are at least as 'radical' as their leaders - part of the reason for secular authoritanism in parts of the region.
that executes more than any besides China, including teenagers who fall foul of the repressive laws on sexual conduct.
Entirely their own business. Nothing to do with you. Nothing to do with me. That is the flavour of society Iranians must want - or at least a large number of them want. They actually had a popular based revolution to install their Islamic government.
On the other hand, perhaps also they have less teen pregnancies, less uncontrolled thugs wandering the streets, less drug abuse, less violent crime. And to me, criminals are at least are subject to just punishment - unlike the travesty of justice New Zealand's courts commonly deliver - for instance just 3 years for bashing to death an old man who pranged ones car.
Now the USSR is gone, any state that is a pariah must be "ok"?
I really don't understand why Iran should be a pariah - they have not invaded anyone, they don't occupy land that is not theirs. They have never threatened New Zealand.
It seems all they want is the same rights as any other sovereign state.
I don't think Iran has nuclear weapons. They are a theocratic state, ruled by Allah....and the head cleric has declared - over and over - that nuclear weapons are immoral and against the will of Allah.
The Iranian president has repeated this many times.
Setting aside the cynicism in the US and elsewhere about their own leaders who say one thing and do another.....in a theocratic state if would be a HUGE breach of faith within its own context to suddenly embrace something (nuclear weapons) which had been completely banned by the very highest authority (God / Allah).
This is why I don't think the Iranians are working on nuclear bombs. The reality is they have a growing population and heavy oil that the West refuses to sell them technology to refine....and oil is the real issue here.
So they need to develop alternative sources of energy that remain entirely within their own control and leaves them not exposed to sanction or blockade by other powers. Not unreasonable given they have suffered both for most of the past 20 years.
They want nuclear power.
Israel is rightly terrified of that having more powerful, prosperous neighbours could lead to it being unable to act with impunity while it commits its ongoing crimes against the Palestinians. That sad conflict has moved well beyond any notion of right or wrong on either side and simply needs to stop. There is no moral high ground left from any perspective.
What I object to is the use of Iran as a bogeyman to justify unjustifiable policies in the US and Israel that have nothing to do with Iran.
As Wayne says, Iran hasn't invaded anyone. Sure, they have funded people who who oppose Israel. The US has been funding bombers and terrorists in Iran for 20 years....and backed the autocratic Shah for 20 years before that. Just two years ago, Bush approved $400 million for covert ops in Iran to destabilse the regime. Cars and buses have been blowing up all over iran since then....but we don't read that in the news unless we go looking for the few, tiny occasional stories with no few details. If Iran was funding bombers in the US we would be hearing a completely different story.......the outcry would be global and used to justify military attacks.
Iran is showing a considerable amount of restraint in not responding in kind to active and ongoing American and Israeli support for terrorism within Iran.
Minnesota Tom won't know anything about that.....or may even approve. I don't know.
I have little time for the Iranian regime. I wouldn't want to live there. But having said that, America and Israel lying about Iran isn't justifiable either. That's one of the reason why they are hated and not trusted in the region.....and that won't change until they start dealing in good faith, over time. But for both regimes - the US and israel - lying and cheating and mainpulating is a habit of long standing and there is a pool of citizens in both countries who agree with and support such integrity-free approaches to interactions with other countries.....and think more lies and lethal force are the best ways to avoid being accountable for such behaviour.
It clearly doesn't work.....but they keep doing it.
libertyscott: You appear to insist on confusing some ideas with others (national self-determination with local democratic rights and freedoms) and conflating issues that can't be compared as they occurred at different times: Iraqi WMD definitely DID exist! Just not within 5 years of when Bush claimed their current existence. So Bush lied...and thousands died.
As for homosexual rights, they have none in Iran...and no amount of ranting and raving by us is going to make any difference there. Homosexuals are discriminated against in most places.
As for executing children, it was an Israeli tank that rolled over top of Rachel Cory and US forces that shot students dead in Penn State university in 1970. Deadly bad things are done by individuals on behalf of all sides when the rhetoric runs too hot. Bader-Meinhoff and the Symbionese Liberation Army were fighting back (in their view) against such abuse of force....as they saw it.
Drugs are everywhere.....especially near to Afghanistan since the demise of the anti-heroin Taleban regime. It's a moral calculation whether the invasion of that country has seen more lives saved - or lost - as a result, thanks to the renewed explosion of heroin production under "our" pet government in Kabul.
As for nukes, Pakistan isn't run by a theocracy. Until recently, it was run by a secular military dictatorship...It may well be that if the clerics took over Pakistan they would dismantle the bombs.
if I could offer you any advice, it would be to try to avoid confusing things that don't belong together or compared things that can't be compared...as you have done here.
Very good summary from a usually pro-Israel site here:
http://www.examiner.com/x-18425-LA-County-Nonpartisan-Examiner~y2009m9d29-Irans-Nuclear-Program-Iran-in-treaty-compliance-USIsrael-lying-and-out-of-compliance
Fuck them right Wayne? Ahmadinejad is legitimate, even though he "won" an election that was an absolute joke.
Not even the Americans could come up with anything to substantiate the opposition claims the elections were rigged. Ahamadinejad won fairly- that fact has been implicitly accepted by Western governments.
REAL Iranians wouldn't protest in the streets would they? They bend over and take what a theocratic dictatorship has to offer.
They certainly took to the streets to get rid of their US backed Shah in 1949. Up to a half million dead defending their country from invasion by the US backed Saddam. That is why perhaps they feel they have some sort of right to national defense (even though all the evidence indicates that they are not in the process of developing nuclear weapons).
The Nazis could conduct the holocaust, the Khmer Rouge the Year Zero slaughter, and it isn't anyone else's business.
The Nazis were resisted because they attacked other countries. They were an external threat. Of course there may be extreme cases were foreign intervention would be humanitarian - the Khmer Rouge atrocities were stopped by of course the Vietnamese.
The situation in Iran is completely different. There is no ongoing genocide there, and a few executions (proportionally speaking about equivalent to 50 or 100 executions in NZ per year), or discrimination against, say, gays, would not justify any sort of invasion, which would most likely result in hundreds of thousands of deaths.
The Iranians simply have a society that some Westerners would find unpalatable. But you don't go to your neighbours house and beat him up, just because he raises his children in a way that is different from the way you would raise your own. Such an attitude is extremely dangerous, and any country with such an attitude would soon find itself hated by the vast majority of the world's population - exactly the situation the US finds itself in today (perhaps a little less since the assumption of the 'One' Obama).
Oh it's nothing to do with me when another government executes children? Go fuck yourself frankly, you vile little nationalist.
'Children' my ass. 1r 16 or 17 year olds. Just as the US executed 16 or 17 year olds up until only a couple of years ago when the Supreme court declared it unconstituational.
And death penalty opponents in the US at the time were equally as disingenuous in their description of these murdering little 16 and 17 year olds as 'children.' But they got their way.
but there is a national boundary, so that keeps it out of mind and out of sight.
The consequences of not respecting such boundaries produced the holocaust of WWII - the most destructive war in all of human history. It resulted in the deaths of up to two million Vietnamese civilians from American bombs. And it has caused several hundred thousand deaths in Iraq - and ongoing chaos and instability that may never end.
Yet funny how the Iranian government doesn't let Iranians choose candidates or political parties or even freely and openly express political views against Islamism.
It is completely absurd to believe that the masses in the Middle East have nothing to do with the way they are ruled - and are all at heart social democrats just bursting to be like the Swedes or the Danes.
No, in the end, a country is a reflection of the character and culture of the people of that country. This is completely obvious - as New Zealanders are fast learning - the government of Afghanistan seems to be giving the Taleban a close run for their money in terms of pissing off Western sensibilities.
Post a Comment
<< Home