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Tuesday, January 27, 2009

Pandora's box

[UPDATE--Thursday:
NZ Herald reporting that the cops just don't get it and will never admit they were wrong or did a poor job:

One of the group, who did not want to be identified, said it wasn't initially obvious that the woman was a police officer. All they could see was a naked man bent over a screaming woman, leading them to think she was being raped.

As they got closer they saw the woman was actually being punched in the face. The witness said the teen hit the policewoman about 60 times.

"She had her arms up, trying to deflect his punches and protect her face."


How about grabbing hold of him and preventing that occurring? He's a "skinny" 16 year old remember.

While one of the friends rang 111, another ran towards the woman and yelled at the teen. "He wasn't phased, he just kept belting her. I suppose he was in panic mode.

"It was just a torrent of punches, it was unbelievable."

When the group member got close, the teen ran off.


One person approaching (after witnessing 60 blows!) causes him to run off. Maybe he was tired after bashing her for two minutes?

He made a mess of her. When she did get to her feet her face was all [covered in] blood. She was staggering and falling."

Police, who had heard their injured colleague's screams over the radio but didn't know exactly where she was until the witness called 111, were on the scene about a minute later.


So with all of her screaming and shouting she never gave her location!? Two minutes worth and she never said : "I'm in the park off Pandora"? It took the witness to give the location.

The policewoman, who suffered scratching to the cornea of her eyes and substantial bruising, and her partner had turned up to the teen's house after he allegedly robbed a dairy twice in six minutes. The teen, who had been in the shower, ran off wearing only a towel.

He was chased by the officers, who split up as they ran. When the policewoman tried to stop him he allegedly started attacking her.

The witness said the policewoman, who is believed to have only been in the job a few months, was incredibly brave and hoped the severe beating wouldn't deter her from pursuing a long career with the police.

"She's got balls, she's got the makings of a bloody fine officer."


No, no, no - epic fail, lady, epic fail. Only the police! She's off to the most shocking start - I'm sure it's a nasty experience, but she should quit given the descriptions of what happened. She can't hack it. It's pretty obvious... unless you are a police spokesperson.

The policewoman was discharged from hospital and was yesterday visited at home by Police Commissioner Howard Broad. She is not expected to suffer any permanent injury. One of the police officers who came to the policewoman's aid was stung by bees.

Stung by bees. FFS. This is a farce.

--UPDATE ENDS]
A commenter, upset that my co-blogger was giving the cops a hard time over the shooting of innocents in the motorway incident on Friday (he was not - he let them off lightly, we are yet to ascertain all the facts), has directed me to this NZ Herald report (in the image):
They then received a tipoff about where he was. When the officer and a male colleague arrived at his house, the boy was in the shower. He fled wearing only a towel.

They chased him, splitting up as they ran.

When the policewoman tried to stop the teen, he whacked her many times in the face.

She suffered severe injuries, including to her eyes.

Police communications staff heard her screaming over the police radio for about two minutes as she was being pummelled.


Put the fucking RT down and control the offender. FFS. Comms doesn't need a blow-by-blow account - hit him with the bloody radio if you're going to use the radio.

Some 16 year olds are quite big (see below), but if a police officer can't get the better of a 16 year old, dressed only in a towel, then they should not be a police officer. It doesn't matter if they are female or male, if a 16 year old can "pummel" a police officer for two minutes - no mention of a weapon here let's be clear - then that person should not be a police officer.

Three people nearby also heard her. "She was yelling, 'Please don't hit me... please help'," one said.

"The guy was straddling her, just beating her face - left, right, left, right."

After yelling at the boy to stop, one of the three advanced on him. He fled.


FFS. This person is a police officer?

Weak cops, as my co-blogger has said before, are more likely to resort to weapons because they are not physically equipped to deal with violent offenders - thus more shootings and taserings and pepper sprayings etc. It sounds as though the police officer could have used something in this incident - other than a radio, though if you can get overwhelmed by a 16 year old you would probably have your weapon taken off you by them as well. But cops don't make mistakes, or get it wrong:

Senior Sergeant Millie Whear said the officer was incredibly brave for holding on to the attacker while she was being hit.

"Brave"!? All cops are brave according to the Police. Ahh, no, "holding on" - if indeed that is what she did - probably caused her injuries. Was it brave? Did he want to hit her or attack her eyes for the hell of it - no, he wanted to escape most likely. She failed to control the offender effectively. He escaped. This police officer didn't achieve anything by "holding on" - if indeed that is what she did - because he ran off:

Police dogs caught the boy, who was by then naked, in a property neighbouring a reserve at the end of Pandora Place.

So she managed to "hold on" to his towel perhaps.

In the process I suppose he must have gouged at her eyes, the little bastard. It is serious and it sounds like a horrific injury so I am reluctant to criticise too harshly what happened, but it does raise issues of who they recruit into the police. Is this just a female thing - no - there are very short (shorter than me!) police officers, male and female, whose physical stature is on the lesser side of average. In the old days they were all 6 foot + cavemen. Not so now days:

She was very grateful for the public's help in stopping the attack. One of those who ended the bashing said the officer "would have been a lot worse off if the fight had lasted longer".

Fight? Sounds like she got the bash more than any fight. Is it right to send out police officers who cannot take down a 16 year old - a skinny one - in a one-on-one?

Ms Cohen said she was surprised by the injuries the attacker inflicted, considering he was "a skinny guy. He must have been an angry young man."

23 Comments:

At 27/1/09 1:27 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

who heres delt with a female cop
? they think they bare king of the world and hide behind their male counterparts-this is what happens when one isnt avalible

 
At 27/1/09 3:50 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How many females could take out a 16 year old maori/poly kid who is completely out of control and aggressive, all she has is a small can of pepper spray which she might not have had time to deploy or if hes agro would have no effect? not many I would wager, shit I bet he would also have kicked Tim's arse had he been there.

If we are going to have female cops maybe we should equip them all with tasers. Incidentally it would be good to see the boys parents forced to stand in the dock with the thing they bred, make them take some responsibility.

 
At 27/1/09 4:47 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

slightly related...a question... how DID the cops 'get' ...arrest... the wanted guy in last week's motorway mayhem ?
I don't quite see how things happened there ... it looks to me like the cops were standing quite close by and shooting ...but completely missed him...( and tragically killed an innocent man ) ... THEN what happened ? did the guy surrender ?

 
At 27/1/09 4:49 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Couldn't handle a skinny 16 yr old kid lol

 
At 27/1/09 5:30 pm, Blogger rangi said...

Don't know the details but ANY cop should be able to smash a 16 yr old "skinny guy" - if they can't do that, then how can they be expected to do their job (on "the beat") properly?

 
At 27/1/09 5:40 pm, Blogger Tim Selwyn said...

It's not funny - except for the fact he was wearing a towel and naked by the end of it - I am serious here.

She wasn't able to control the offender, he was able to inflict serious injuries in the course of events that went on - beyond her control - only until he was approached by other people - at which point he took off. No cop should be in that sort of situation. If he surprised her and he hit her on the head with something then I can understand, she may have been concussed; but the article did not suggest that was the case. She was in pursuit of him.

Could you imagine a male police officer in that situation? The kid would be lucky to be walking at the end of it. When two people are grappling and they both hit the deck the advantage goes with body weight - the offender was described as skinny. She must have been a runt. It is quite unfair to put people not physically capable into dangerous situations, it's probably an OSH thing as well - if indeed that was the situation.

A skinny, naked kid got the better of a cop. Two minutes of the bash. It's usually the other way around. The whole incident sounds like school holiday P-crazed insanity.

Children shouldn't beat women, or police officers. You can't have a skinny 16 year old thrash a cop. FFS. The whole episode is quite shameful and undignified - for everyone involved.

 
At 27/1/09 10:00 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

But they must have let the dog chew the boy up a bit longer as punishment for giving the lady cop the bash, as they do. I must say though it is a refreshing change from the usual "It took 6 of us to restrain him your Honour, and we did not use excessive force your Honour, he was un cooperative and we had to spray 10 cans of pepper spray down his throat make him comply, your Honour" lol

 
At 27/1/09 10:04 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course this is a grand example of why cops should not be armed -the kid would have taken her gun off her, and who knows what might happen after that.

 
At 27/1/09 10:06 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The lady cop should get some good dough from the women's magazines, with a great story like that she should make 20 grand or more.

 
At 28/1/09 12:27 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well posted, Tim! Anon 10:04pm has it right - if the cop had a taser or gun she would have been far more likely to use it, or have it used against her.

The danger of such weapons is they encourage weaker cops to lower the threshold of when they are used...

 
At 28/1/09 8:42 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter if they are female or male, if a 16 year old can "pummel" a police officer for two minutes - no mention of a weapon here let's be clear - then that person should not be a police officer.

Why 16?
Why not 13? Or 23?
Tell you what tough guy, pop down to your local rugby league team and challenge any 15 year old to a fight. Doubt you will come out on top Tim.

But seriously, it sounds like you don't want women to be police officers.

How old was the guy who beat Constable Murray Stretch to death with his own baton in Mangakino? About 21.

But your blog is a perfect reason for arming our police, and allowing them to shoot first, ask questions later.

 
At 28/1/09 10:35 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This post represents all that is wrong with blogsphere. Amateur commentators getting on their soapbox telling us what 'should' have happened when they weren't there and have no fcuking idea what went on except from what they read somewhere else.

Given that neither tim nor bomber have ever had police training nor have had to subdue violent offenders should we even take this post seriously?

 
At 28/1/09 11:31 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Spot on Tim!!! BentCops.org

 
At 28/1/09 12:09 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Given that neither tim nor bomber have ever had police training nor have had to subdue violent offenders should we even take this post seriously?

And this would be the petty 19 weeks 'training' Police get would it, the one with the much lower physical entry grade?

 
At 28/1/09 12:34 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"And this would be the petty 19 weeks 'training' Police get would it, the one with the much lower physical entry grade?"

In addition to the two years as a probationary constable where they are supervised.

Do you have any insights as to the content of the 19 weeks training or are you just talking from a position of ignorance?

 
At 28/1/09 12:38 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

In addition to the two years as a probationary constable where they are supervised.
Ahh yes where they learn to shut their mouth or else, yes that certainly backs up their petty 19 weeks of training.

Do you have any insights as to the content of the 19 weeks training or are you just talking from a position of ignorance?
I certainly haver insights, let's see the lowering of the phyiscal requirements mean they are much more reliant on aggressive tactics they physically can't back up and I've always thought the ONE DAY they spend on domestic violence in no way prepares them. The 19 weeks is pathetic and the lower physical requirements led to the exact type of cops who get beaten up by 16 year olds.

 
At 28/1/09 12:50 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe you should go on the 19 week course and then report back to us when you have some actual KNOWLEDGE instead of idle speculation.

What exactly are you basing your opinion on - nothing. Therefore your assertion is totally without merit and should be disregarded with the same contempt that I reserve for talkback radio callers.

It's getting fucking boring listening to people like you drone on and on.

 
At 28/1/09 12:55 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe you should go on the 19 week course and then report back to us when you have some actual KNOWLEDGE instead of idle speculation.
Im basing it on what they teach in the 19 weeks - yes or no, do Police spend more than one day on domestic violence?

It's getting fucking boring listening to people like you drone on and on.
Almost as fucking boring as your utter defence of them, are you Greg O'Conner?

 
At 28/1/09 1:02 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why don't you post the curriculum here then as proof. Oh that's right you're talking out of your arse so you don't have any.

While I'm at it I'll make the assertion that you're an ignorant fuck knuckle but I actually have proof in the form of your moronic posts.

 
At 28/1/09 7:09 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

19 weeks is just not enough time to properly train people to handle these sorts of situations.
That is why they go wrong again and again (and again and...)

As for him being a "skinny guy", it's the skinny ones you need to watch out for, you know what the big ones will do...

 
At 29/1/09 12:13 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Skinny Guy thing is a pretty good description of any amatuer boxer I've ever met.

But can we back the truck up here a bit.
The shop owner was intimidated but an aggressive youth on a kids bike and with a recognised toy gun.

I can understand that. But did the police raid his house because this snot-nosed youth had been reported with a gun?

Treat all guns as real and loaded untill proved otherwise.
OK.

So then you chase this near naked youth who is obviously unarmed.
OK.

You then split up, catch the youth, and get the shit knocked out of you for two minutes.
This is where you and your partner fucked up.

He's unclothed let alone unarmed, how far is he gonna run and you've possitively IDed who it is you're after.
Why such a hurray again and why split up for 2 minutes while you get fucked up by the kid?

And he ran off after on lookers said boo.

Ms Rickards I presume?

 
At 29/1/09 12:26 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Skinny Guy thing is a pretty good description of any amatuer boxer I've ever met.

Let us assume that the vast majority of skinny 16 year olds are not boxers and stop making excuses.

 
At 30/1/09 3:25 pm, Anonymous Ben said...

Tim, following your logic women (who generally are physically smaller/less powerful than men) would never be involved in the police?

I'm not saying that is good or bad, but that would be the natural result of your criteria.

Also, in terms of that criteria (not getting beaten up by a 16 yr old) this overlooks that polynesians tend to mature faster & tend to have more mesomorphic body types than caucasions & Asians. I haven't read the facts of this case, but getting beaten up by a 16 yr old isn't as implausible as you're suggesting.

 

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