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Thursday, October 30, 2008

Aunty Helen will look after us


Labour unveils $50m redundancy package
BREAKING NEWS: Labour has unveiled a 13-week cash benefit to be paid to workers who lose their jobs in tough economic times. Labour leader Helen Clark has just told workers at Patience and Nicholson Engineering in Kaiapoi that if they lost their jobs as a result of an economic downturn they would receive the unemployment benefit immediately regardless of their income or assets. Under Labour's transitional assistance package the unemployment benefit would be paid for 13 weeks without means testing. That means workers with houses or partners who work will not be affected. The normal stand-down period for getting assistance would be reduced to one or two weeks.

With so many fearful of what will happen with their jobs, Labour have put forward an incredibly generous package free of the usual barriers, this will boost Labour support from those who usually vote Labour but have been turned off from the Winston business. Watch to see the undecided vote come down and Labour vote to solidify upwards from this announcement.

25 Comments:

At 30/10/08 2:33 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Watch to see the undecided vote come down and Labour vote to solidify upwards from this announcement.

You keep praying for that seachange Bomber, it just might come.

 
At 30/10/08 2:46 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How's that "Neutron Bomb" going for ya there Bomber? The biggest fizzer in political history eh?

 
At 30/10/08 2:50 pm, Blogger Bomber said...

How's that "Neutron Bomb" going for ya there Bomber? The biggest fizzer in political history eh?

I didn't say this was the neutron bomb at all - I have been very clear in the past pointing out that I think it will be dropped next wednesday (or this weekend) - my guess is next wednesday - this finance thing is some added extra that was thrown in, it's not what I've heard is the neutron bomb at all.

 
At 30/10/08 3:06 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's look at the numbers.


Lets just say Labour is giving out $175 per week per person who looses their job. Multiplied by 13 weeks.

That's $2,275. Divide the $50 million by $2,275 and you get 219782.

That doesn't sound like much, especially considering one person could be on this benefit for the full 13 weeks, gain a new job for a short time then loose that job and go on the benefit again. That $50 mil will soon be gone, then what?

And what of the people who have lost their jobs in the last couple of weeks, and their are plenty, do they have to wait til after the election to find out?

 
At 30/10/08 3:15 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong time and time again.

If you think $50m in transitionary dole payments is really going to give labour an extra 10 points of support then you have to be deluded.

 
At 30/10/08 3:42 pm, Blogger Dave said...

That means workers with houses or partners who work will not be affected
Bomber, do keep up - you have to be in the work force five years to be eligible - so it will not extend to some workers who have partners or houses.

 
At 30/10/08 3:44 pm, Blogger Dave said...

oh and as Ive said, the policy hasn't even been discussed by officials, let alone been formulated.

So its hardly a "package" - there's nothing to wrap yet.

 
At 30/10/08 3:50 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That means workers with houses or partners who work will not be affected

Hey Dave, could you show me where Bomber said this?

 
At 30/10/08 3:56 pm, Blogger Dave said...

He didn't say that. I never said he did, either. Bit he did say the package is "free of the usual barriers" when it clearly isn't for some people.

Does that answer your question?

 
At 30/10/08 3:59 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's $2,275. Divide the $50 million by $2,275 and you get 219782.

That figure should be 21,978.

 
At 30/10/08 4:59 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can you make any less retarded assertions.

This is getting embarassing.

 
At 30/10/08 5:34 pm, Anonymous Bill English said...

"It's hard to understand why Labour has decided to do nothing for households who lose all their income through redundancy, such as a couple where one person stays at home to look after children, or a sole parent who loses their job."

"If one person in a household is working and the other is at home with the children, you get nothing from this package when you lose your job.

"But where a couple are both working, the household will get the full couple rate of unemployment benefit if one of them is made redundant.

"And why should sole parents miss out on any extra assistance? They work, they also 'take on obligations commensurate with their earnings', as Labour says.

"So, to those who have another source of income, more will be given."

The cost estimate of $50 million a year would be plausible if there was any funding for the package, but there is no funding.

"When Labour says funding will have come from existing baselines, that means they plan to cut something.

"So what are they going to cut?

"This is another badly constructed policy on the hoof that they can't pay for.

"Helen Clark should also be up front about what promises she will break if she gets the chance to deliver her December mini-Budget. The money has to come from somewhere."

 
At 30/10/08 5:38 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I didn't say this was the neutron bomb at all - I have been very clear in the past pointing out that I think it will be dropped next wednesday (or this weekend) - my guess is next wednesday - this finance thing is some added extra that was thrown in, it's not what I've heard is the neutron bomb at all.

Well many other blogs including The Standard and Public Address, as well as some MSM are admitting that this was the N-bomb, and that it has backfired.

So unless you have inside information about Labour's next political move in regards to John Key (which would put you closer to the Labour party than you keep admitting to), it looks like you are incapable of admitting when you're wrong.

 
At 30/10/08 6:37 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do try harder Bomber, your partisanship is looking decidely bizarre.

Announcing policy around job loss in a factory is plain stupid, the premise is that the "audience" is probably going to lose theirs.

Nobody clapped and who can blame them

 
At 30/10/08 10:58 pm, Anonymous Stack said...

Bill English:

We look forward to your own party's policy on this issue, promised by John Key to be the same only much cleverer.

Of course we know how you will be paying for this proposal: the same as all your proposals, i.e. you will be borrowing the money. Meaning that the taxpayer will pay, same as usual, but PLUS INTEREST, in due course.

 
At 31/10/08 7:10 am, Blogger Bomber said...

Well many other blogs including The Standard and Public Address, as well as some MSM are admitting that this was the N-bomb, and that it has backfired.
Is this The Standard or Public Address? Is it? Check the blogsite of this blog, does it say Public Address or The Standard? Does it?

So unless you have inside information about Labour's next political move in regards to John Key
I've been sayi8ng this for sometime Anon, please keep up, have you just started reading the site have you? When was the Neutron bomb first mentioned Anon? I don't know jack about John Key and the bloody 'H-Fee' - what I have been saying well before this storm in a teacup is that something would be dropped Wednesday before the election and it was something I heard ages before all of this.

(which would put you closer to the Labour party than you keep admitting to),
No not at all, again you need to keep up.

it looks like you are incapable of admitting when you're wrong.
Oh for the love of Christ - I have stated very clearly that I've heard what the Neutron bomb is supposed to be ages ago and I have been very clear in stating that I believed it would be launched the Wednesday before the election - what part of any of this don't you get Anonymous poster? - Why is is that the anonymous posters are always so slow?

AGAIN - just for my clow anonymous poster - this John Key business with the H-Fee IS NOT what I was told was the Neutron bomb and I was told it would be most likely launched on the Wednesday before the election, is that clear enough for you anon, can I make that any more clear for you Anon? You right for socks and undies as well love?

 
At 31/10/08 8:47 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right.
So bomber has evidence of a Neutron-bomb that is going to destroy John Key's credibility, and put Labour back into power, and has had this information for ages, whilst there has been no mention at all in any other blogs (including the Standard, which is as close to Labour as you can get) or MSM about this.
In fact the MSM and blogs only mention the H-fee, no other monumental piece of information that will destroy John Key.
And lets be honest, if the MSM or any bloggers had that information, they would be publishing it immediately, for the scoop that it is.
But not bomber, he will mention the fact that he is privy to information that will destroy John Key, but he won't disclose it, instead waiting for another blogger or the MSM to publish it.

And you expect us to believe you?

Well bomber, in one week we will know if you were privy to information that was so destructive that only a handful of Labour Ministers were aware of it (if it was common knowledge it would have been leaked by now), or just a patronising egotist, and incapable of backing down even when you know your wrong.

 
At 31/10/08 9:40 am, Blogger Bomber said...

Right.
So bomber has evidence of a Neutron-bomb that is going to destroy John Key's credibility,

No, I didn't say that, and if you check I was mentioning Neutron Bomb in June, well before any of this John Key stuff.


and put Labour back into power,
It will effect the way people see National yes, will it be enough to put Labour into power - that is yet to be seen.


and has had this information for ages, whilst there has been no mention at all in any other blogs (including the Standard, which is as close to Labour as you can get) or MSM about this.
Agian that's simply not true, there have been several mentions in the mainstream media about what is left to release in the last week of the election, you are simply coming to this debate as Johnny come lately.


In fact the MSM and blogs only mention the H-fee, no other monumental piece of information that will destroy John Key.
And lets be honest, if the MSM or any bloggers had that information, they would be publishing it immediately, for the scoop that it is.

Unless the evidence proving the allegation hasn't been released yet and that is my guess for Wednesday.

But not bomber, he will mention the fact that he is privy to information that will destroy John Key, but he won't disclose it, instead waiting for another blogger or the MSM to publish it.
If I haven't seen the evidence I wouln't reveal what I've been told, I waited until I had seen the Corrections Document to comment, I waited until I interviewed Pita Sharples point out he was being told one thing in public and another in private before I commented, I waited until I had seen Phil Goff suggest he would be keen on the leadership before I commented and I waited until I had seen evidence from the Police re the Terror charges before I commented.

And you expect us to believe you?
Whether you believe me Anonymous poster or not is of no interest to me. I've been told something and I'm waiting to see if it's sprung.

Well bomber, in one week we will know if you were privy to information that was so destructive that only a handful of Labour Ministers were aware of it
That's right, we will.

(if it was common knowledge it would have been leaked by now),
It has been rumoured in the msm

or just a patronising egotist,
If I had commented without evidence that would make me a patronising egotist.

and incapable of backing down even when you know your wrong.
Last point is more a projection from you than a statement of fact

 
At 31/10/08 10:07 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right.
So bomber has evidence of a Neutron-bomb that is going to destroy John Key's credibility,

No, I didn't say that, and if you check I was mentioning Neutron Bomb in June, well before any of this John Key stuff.

A neutron bomb that is going to destroy the entire National Party?
Unless it is photographic evidence of their baby-eating proclivities, a neutron bomb not targeting John Key, but the party itself or any other MP will have no discernable effect on the average voter so close to the eletion.
Who cares about esoteric backroom wheeling and dealings, it has to be baby-eating material.

It will effect the way people see National yes, will it be enough to put Labour into power - that is yet to be seen.

If it's baby-eating, sure. If it's hollow men stuff, then it's too obscure, too technical and too late for the average voter.

Agian that's simply not true, there have been several mentions in the mainstream media about what is left to release in the last week of the election,

A simple link then would show who in the MSM is running with this neutron bomb scenario,

you are simply coming to this debate as Johnny come lately.

Well seeing that you have my isp address and know I have been posting for a long time, I guess we will take that as more of your patronising style.

Unless the evidence proving the allegation hasn't been released yet and that is my guess for Wednesday.
If I haven't seen the evidence I wouln't reveal what I've been told,
I've been told something and I'm waiting to see if it's sprung.

Rumour,gossip and innuendo.
Thats it.

It has been rumoured in the msm

Simple link to said rumour would suffice.

If I had commented without evidence that would make me a patronising egotist.

Heh.
The beauty of unintended irony.

 
At 31/10/08 10:25 am, Blogger Bomber said...

A neutron bomb that is going to destroy the entire National Party?
Unless it is photographic evidence of their baby-eating proclivities, a neutron bomb not targeting John Key, but the party itself or any other MP will have no discernable effect on the average voter so close to the eletion.
Who cares about esoteric backroom wheeling and dealings, it has to be baby-eating material.

That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it.

If it's baby-eating, sure. If it's hollow men stuff, then it's too obscure, too technical and too late for the average voter.
That’s what you hope

A simple link then would show who in the MSM is running with this neutron bomb scenario,
We’ve linked to it on this site with the SNR – you simply haven’t kept up with the discussion we’ve been having here have you Anon?

Well seeing that you have my isp address and know I have been posting for a long time, I guess we will take that as more of your patronising style.
That’s evidence of me being Patronizing, pointing out that you seem to have not read anything I’ve been writing on this issue, but attacking me because the H-fee was a fizzer and claiming that as a victory? I think you are trying way too hard here.

Rumour,gossip and innuendo.
Thats it.

Which is why I haven’t come out and said anything but simply reported I’ve heard something from pretty good sources.

Simple link to said rumour would suffice.
Again, if you have been reading what I’ve been posting you would know exactly what I’m talking about, we did nearly half a show on the SNR on the rumour.

Heh.
The beauty of unintended irony.

Oh Anon was the smarmy comment necessary, seeing as you claim to have been reading for so long but need a detailed map to what I’ve been blogging on for months while trying to take some victory from the H-fee fizzer only to snigger with ‘the beauty of unintended irony’ suggests you miss the unintended irony – here you are insulting me while asking me to help you read the points I’ve been blogging on for months.

And I stand by If I had commented without evidence that would make me a patronising egotist. - I listed examples where I waited until I had seen the evidence before commenting. You post anonymously so know nothing about being responsible with a blog, my name is on it and I try to be responsible, sure I don't get it right it's my opinion and the beauty of a blog is that if you do get it wrong you hear it pretty quick. But I have heard from pretty solid sources there is still things to be released in the final week that will have an impact, and until it's released I'll reserve my comments. If I'm right, no one will be talking about Winston next week.

 
At 31/10/08 11:00 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

At least the workers are getting something out of this than billionaire funded KFC election bribes to obese south aucklanders.

One thing bomber forgot in his cutting edge analysis is that swing voters are more likely to be upper middle class who have previously found national a little too extreme. They're unlikely to be fired and be grateful for the 153 a week.

Maybe you should be a little more rigerous in your thinking bomber.

This is a lazy post at best.

 
At 31/10/08 11:22 am, Blogger Bomber said...

At least the workers are getting something out of this than billionaire funded KFC election bribes to obese south aucklanders.

One thing bomber forgot in his cutting edge analysis is that swing voters are more likely to be upper middle class who have previously found national a little too extreme. They're unlikely to be fired and be grateful for the 153 a week.

Maybe you should be a little more rigerous in your thinking bomber.

This is a lazy post at best.


I disagree - I called this blog 'Aunty Helen will look after us' - the perception is what is most important here and the perception at a time when people are frightened is that Helen will look after people, can John Key create the same level of perception? There are many times more NZers who earn less than $30 000 than earn over it and Labour needs to reach out to those people, and those people aren't certain about the economic future - the mechanics of the package aren't nearly as important as the perception Labour are attempting to create, just like what National will try and do today with their pakage. National are feeding their more feral voters with abolishing the Maori seats nonesense, Labour will be trying to feed their frightened hiddled masses with the idea Helen will be there for them.

 
At 31/10/08 12:00 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The people who are poor and vulnable which you assume correctly are in the $30k income level will already be labour voters. They basically have no choice but to vote labour.


The people who are sitting on the fence represent the centre. Their concerns are likely to be tax cuts, quality of education and the like. The majority of policies both parties release e.g. universal student allowences, working for families (which excludes beneficiaries) and kiwisaver as designed to reach out to the undecided middles classes i.e. swing voters.

They don't want 'helen to be there' they want to get as much out of the state as possible. I think you have misread the situation, it's all about centre now. Why do you think national and labour policies are so convergent.

 
At 31/10/08 12:18 pm, Blogger Bomber said...

The people who are poor and vulnable which you assume correctly are in the $30k income level will already be labour voters. They basically have no choice but to vote labour.

The people who are sitting on the fence represent the centre. Their concerns are likely to be tax cuts, quality of education and the like. The majority of policies both parties release e.g. universal student allowences, working for families (which excludes beneficiaries) and kiwisaver as designed to reach out to the undecided middles classes i.e. swing voters.

They don't want 'helen to be there' they want to get as much out of the state as possible. I think you have misread the situation, it's all about centre now. Why do you think national and labour policies are so convergent.


You raise fine points, but my counter is that the bad press about Winston has tarred Labour supporters and while the affluent middle class Labour Plus voters have been swinging their vote to National, those who look to Labour for 'protection' have been turned off and were simply not intending to vote - they are part of that 12% who haven't committed, they won't vote National because they don't trust National (and because they won't get that much from National) - so my reading is that they weren't intending to vote - until the economy went bung, now they are very interested in who will be in power - Labour are now simply making sure they get as many supporters as possible by appealling directly to those working poor who are nervous about the future to get out and vote and leave other factors in the final week to turn off the Labour Plus voters.

Remember Labour don't need to beat National, all they have to do is get in the early/mid 30s.

 
At 31/10/08 1:13 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The trust issue is interesting. I'm not really sure if we can trust any of them.

At this point I think it would be productive to identify who the undecided are. I really can't fathom why the poor and uneducated would vote for anybody but labour so I would class your working poor in that catagory rather than a swing centrist voter which obviously can be empiracally proven given the success of labour and the socialist orientated muldoon admnistrations over the past 30 years. Labour can and will take them for granted.

In regards to Winston I think most people don't really give a shit despite his unethical behaviour so I think your comment on tarring is a little strong. He's more like an amusing sideshow and is seen as yesterdays man. Once you price his bauble there is not substantial except a nice haircut gleaming smile and pinstripe suit.

Although I am a centre right voter I would concede that NZ veers more to the left the majority of times but I think that this election is one of the exceptions like '87.

 

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