- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Monday, August 25, 2008

National's user-pay plan for city roads


National's user-pay plan for city roads
New roads around Auckland might be paid for by tolls on drivers who use them if National wins the election. The party's transport spokesman, Maurice Williamson, said yesterday that commuters could face bills of up to $50 a week for tolls of $3 to $5 a trip on new motorways or similar "roads of national importance". But he believed that most people, if given a choice between tolls or queuing on free roads, would gladly pay

Gladly pay? Maurice doesn’t believe in global warming so has no time for public transport and so doesn’t see the irony on spending billions in building roads which within a decade with oil prices predicted to be $10 a litre most NZers won’t be able to afford to drive on. Here we have National spending up to $750 million extra in borrowed money per year to fund infrastructure and lo and behold these private public partnerships will result in a company being able to charge the taxpayer after the taxpayer has already paid for the infrastructure PLUS will be paying the interest on top of the loan. 52% of NZers didn’t buy the borrow for infrastructure deal and as the detail starts to leech out that taxpayers will pay even more for something they have already paid for, that number will grow.

43 Comments:

At 25/8/08 8:11 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"52% of NZers"

Really?
52% of the New Zealand population was polled?

 
At 25/8/08 8:15 am, Anonymous lol said...

it was in the last poll that showed 50% of NZ didn't trust National, 52% didn't believe in the borrowing for infrastructure

 
At 25/8/08 8:44 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd have to say that Bomber along with 50% of the population haven't been out of the country and seen how well toll roads work - all over the states and europe and they work great.

 
At 25/8/08 9:38 am, Anonymous mawm said...

up to $750 million extra in borrowed money per year to fund infrastructure

Despite the alarmist doomsday predictions, this infrastructure will be well used by NZ (and not all of it is for roads). Certainly money better spent than the 1.4 billion on a useless rusting railway which we will have to subsidise forever.

Tolls are an efficient and fair way to tax those who use a service, now we need to see the reduction of petrol tax going hand in hand with tolling of all the major roads and new roading developments.

 
At 25/8/08 11:10 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Like they say, "follow the money trail "

 
At 25/8/08 11:42 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Despite the alarmist doomsday predictions, this infrastructure will be well used by NZ (and not all of it is for roads). Certainly money better spent than the 1.4 billion on a useless rusting railway which we will have to subsidise forever.

Tolls are an efficient and fair way to tax those who use a service, now we need to see the reduction of petrol tax going hand in hand with tolling of all the major roads and new roading development


Do they have tolls in South Africa Mawm or is it whites only roads?

 
At 25/8/08 11:43 am, Anonymous lol said...

Despite the alarmist doomsday predictions, this infrastructure will be well used by NZ (and not all of it is for roads). Certainly money better spent than the 1.4 billion on a useless rusting railway which we will have to subsidise forever.

Tolls are an efficient and fair way to tax those who use a service, now we need to see the reduction of petrol tax going hand in hand with tolling of all the major roads and new roading development


Why should we pay plus interest on the borrowed money and then pay a toll? Roads are not the answer - public transport is the answer.

 
At 25/8/08 12:55 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

" lol said...
it was in the last poll that showed 50% of NZ didn't trust National, 52% didn't believe in the borrowing for infrastructure"

So let me get this straight lol, 2 million plus New Zealanders don't trust National?
When did this massive poll happen?

Are you sure you don't mean 50% of those polled?

 
At 25/8/08 1:06 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you sure you don't mean 50% of those polled?

WARNING! WARNING! Semantics Nazi on the prowl

 
At 25/8/08 1:12 pm, Anonymous sdm said...

"Why should we pay plus interest on the borrowed money and then pay a toll? Roads are not the answer - public transport is the answer."

Oh I love cliches. They sound so damned convincing, until you think a little.

Can you tell me how, here in Auckland, geographically a huge city, where business centres are spread out (ie we dont all work in the city) where people live as far away as Pukekohe and Waiwera, Piha and Maraetai - how a public transport system is supposed to work (and be economical)

Its all very well to wank on about public transport if your a liberal living in Pt Chev and working in town - its easy for you - what about the rest of us?

 
At 25/8/08 1:27 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Exactly Scott

public transport is the answer.

I think someone here has clearly never tried to use public transport to get from Auckland to another city.
One bus trip from Auckland to Giborne and he would through himself at Maurice Williamson's feet and BEG for Toll roads!

 
At 25/8/08 2:38 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can you tell me how, here in Auckland, geographically a huge city, where business centres are spread out (ie we dont all work in the city) where people live as far away as Pukekohe and Waiwera, Piha and Maraetai - how a public transport system is supposed to work (and be economical)

Its all very well to wank on about public transport if your a liberal living in Pt Chev and working in town - its easy for you - what about the rest of us?


Gosh aren't your true colours coming out in the wash SDM, but seeing as you HATE Labour, anything you have to say on policy is a little tainted isn't it? You're just a hater

 
At 25/8/08 2:42 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Exactly Scott

public transport is the answer.

I think someone here has clearly never tried to use public transport to get from Auckland to another city.
One bus trip from Auckland to Giborne and he would through himself at Maurice Williamson's feet and BEG for Toll roads!

Bullshit, private transport is a dying luxery not affordable in the new reality, Scott wants us to borrow money, pay the interest on that money AND pay tolls so he and his rich prick mates can drive around in their SUV swine mobiles without waiting for the poor people.

 
At 25/8/08 2:59 pm, Anonymous sdm said...

See you can't do it. You won't do it. "The new reality" Uh huh.

Please answer my question. How would you design a public transport system in a geographically sparse city/low density system such as Auckland. Please note also in your explaination how you get around the fact that workplaces are spread around the city and not concentrated in the CBD.

Tell me how it would work practically (and not lose money).

 
At 25/8/08 3:08 pm, Anonymous lol said...

See you can't do it. You won't do it. "The new reality" Uh huh.
Yes the new reality you moron, global warming through man made emissions many of them from cars Scott, or have you been asleep on that issue as well? Petrol at sky high prices with predictions that will only increase, not a problem for scotty in his little world. Uh huh. And your solution is borrow money, pay the interest on that loan AND pay tolls.

Please answer my question. How would you design a public transport system in a geographically sparse city/low density system such as Auckland. Please note also in your explaination how you get around the fact that workplaces are spread around the city and not concentrated in the CBD.
Public Tranpsort has been underfunded in Auckland for decades upon decades, streatching back to when Robbie first argued for rail, it isn't easy Scott, it is hard but to shrug and push for more roads as your solution is a fucking joke. More buses and more rail everywhere, integrated ticketing, check out better transport website for ideas.

Tell me how it would work practically (and not lose money).
It's a public service, obviously something you can't get your head around.

 
At 25/8/08 4:12 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Oh I love cliches. They sound so damned convincing, until you think a little."

Hence the Green party polling at 5% (if they're lucky)

 
At 25/8/08 4:20 pm, Anonymous lock and load said...

Hence the Green party polling at 5% (if they're lucky)
Actually they are above 6% on current polling, if you are going to make a spiteful comment, at least get your facts straight, it doesn't make you look like so much of a cock that way

 
At 25/8/08 5:42 pm, Anonymous sdm said...

"Public Tranpsort has been underfunded in Auckland for decades upon decades, streatching back to when Robbie first argued for rail, it isn't easy Scott, it is hard but to shrug and push for more roads as your solution is a fucking joke. More buses and more rail everywhere, integrated ticketing, check out better transport website for ideas"

It wont work for me but the idea has some merit. Take my wife for instance - she commutes from St Heliers to Albany every day - do you propose she catch public transport? The 'cross town' stuff doesnt work. Travel to the CBD is usually fine, but when you need to get anywhere else its a pain in the arse.

"It's a public service, obviously something you can't get your head around."

I dont believe the public service should fund things that dont make economic sense.

 
At 25/8/08 11:04 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So tell me why I give a shit about your opinion again cockload.

Face dick, the greens are always going to be a minority taking it in the ass and abasing themselves to be close to power.

 
At 26/8/08 1:14 am, Blogger Paul said...

Hey if I've put my tax money in and someone else uses the road and pays, do I get my share of the profits??

 
At 26/8/08 5:49 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It wont work for me but the idea has some merit. Take my wife for instance - she commutes from St Heliers to Albany every day - do you propose she catch public transport? The 'cross town' stuff doesnt work. Travel to the CBD is usually fine, but when you need to get anywhere else its a pain in the arse.
Of course it doesn't work now because we haven't done a damned thing to improve the services for decades, isn't Auckland one of the few cities in the world that doesn't own its own public transport service? Tickets have to be integrated so your wife can catch transport across town.

I dont believe the public service should fund things that dont make economic sense.
How can you say that? Having a streamlined, efficient public transport system that gets people out of their cars allowing quicker travel time doesn't make economic sense? But borrowing to build roads, paying the interest on that loan PLUS paying tolls - that does make economic sense does it?

 
At 26/8/08 5:50 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look sdm, you just hate Labour, Labour stand for public tranpsort, you hate public transport.

 
At 26/8/08 5:51 am, Anonymous lol said...

So tell me why I give a shit about your opinion again cockload.

Face dick, the greens are always going to be a minority taking it in the ass and abasing themselves to be close to power.

Friend of your SDM?

Hey if I've put my tax money in and someone else uses the road and pays, do I get my share of the profits??
Hahaha, you know they won't do that Paul

 
At 26/8/08 6:21 am, Anonymous Red man said...

so while you were argueing for National on this site boys, did you realize Maurice had just been spanked for revealling too much secret agenda again, or were you ignoring that salient fact?

 
At 26/8/08 7:22 am, Anonymous sdm said...

You still havent explained how its going to work in so much as how it will be

A) Economically viable to both the consumer and taxpayer
B) How it will work with a low density/high population spread.

My wife leaves early for work - it takes her 30mins in the car. Petrol is about $4 a trip. Under the current system it would take for 1 hr 44 mins (includidng a walk of nearly 1km) and cost $10 a trip. (Petrol could double in price and it would still be cheaper)

 
At 26/8/08 7:31 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You still havent explained how its going to work in so much as how it will be

A) Economically viable to both the consumer and taxpayer
B) How it will work with a low density/high population spread.

My wife leaves early for work - it takes her 30mins in the car. Petrol is about $4 a trip. Under the current system it would take for 1 hr 44 mins (includidng a walk of nearly 1km) and cost $10 a trip. (Petrol could double in price and it would still be cheaper)

All that proves SDM is how underfunded public transport has become, this isn't an arguement for less public funding for public transport, it's an arguement for more so your nice wife can get to work on time, but tell us SDM, your blessed National party tells us $50 a week in tolls yesterday and now tells us that it isn't a $50 toll, your their mouthpeice, explian it to us.

 
At 26/8/08 7:43 am, Anonymous sdm said...

1) Im not a national voter.

2) Do you think that Public transport should be funded NO MATTER WHAT even if it costs the taxpayer billions.

Public transport is easy to do in areas of high density. Its easy to do when everyone works 5 mins from a train station/bus route. But thats not Auckland.

My wife - 30 mins by car and $4. 1 hr 44 bus, a walk and $10. Please tell me at what point you think she should catch the bus? When its the same time and cost? How are you going to do that?

 
At 26/8/08 8:07 am, Anonymous lol said...

1) Im not a national voter.
But you hate labour right, and Public Transport is a big part of Labour, thus....

2) Do you think that Public transport should be funded NO MATTER WHAT even if it costs the taxpayer billions.
Is climate change real and peak oil real or do you deny those things as well, because those two factors make public transport necessary, private transport is dead.

Haven't heard you explain which National Party policy you are defedning, the $50 toll or the not $50 toll, if you work it out could you explian it to National as well?

 
At 26/8/08 8:13 am, Anonymous sdm said...

"Is climate change real and peak oil real or do you deny those things as well, because those two factors make public transport necessary, private transport is dead. "

You haven't explained how it is going to work in Auckland. Is it a good use of money, or are we better off spending it on fuel efficiency for instance. We are talking past each other - you are being ideological, I am being practical. You say "i like public transport" and I reply "ok, tell me how such a model would work in Auckland" and you can't do it.

Private transport will never die.


"Haven't heard you explain which National Party policy you are defedning, the $50 toll or the not $50 toll, if you work it out could you explian it to National as well?"

Why is it for me to explain their policy?

 
At 26/8/08 8:29 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lol, if we knew what it was we could explain it. :)

 
At 26/8/08 8:39 am, Anonymous lol said...

Lol, if we knew what it was we could explain it. :)

Well said

 
At 26/8/08 9:06 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You can't expect LOL to explain anything. Cliches are not substitute for substantive knowledge or expertise. If he had an answer he would have told us without repeating the same old booygman climate change mantras.

Actually he reminds me of Ruth Richard and Roger Douglous forever chanting 'there is no alternative' as if it explained something.

 
At 26/8/08 9:08 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

lol.

I understand you don't want a referendum regarding MMP.

Why do you hate democracy?

 
At 26/8/08 9:22 am, Anonymous lol said...

You can't expect LOL to explain anything. Cliches are not substitute for substantive knowledge or expertise. If he had an answer he would have told us without repeating the same old booygman climate change mantras.

LOL - God, get off your high horse you patronizing old bitter jaded man, and where did I say I was male? This debate has been about borrowing money to build roads tolled by a private company and the issues that raises when you add the reality of climate change and peak oil. SDM holds up the decades old underfunded public transport system and claims that's reason enough to dump the lot while you cheerlead him. Get over yourself.

As for the above, I love democracy enough to protect a system that doesn't give the same old elites the same old power system.

 
At 26/8/08 9:31 am, Anonymous sdm said...

So you love democracy enough to stop people from having a vote. You rock.

 
At 26/8/08 9:50 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So you love democracy enough to stop people from having a vote. You rock.

Fuck Scott you've gone from attacking lol on her public transport arguement, seem to be not winning there and now you jump on this bullshit MMP referendum is democracy so you must hate democracy for not letting the elites have a go at putting back in place a system that benefits them. You've disappointed me twice this morning.

 
At 26/8/08 9:55 am, Anonymous sdm said...

Oh I am so sorry to have ruined your morning. You forget of course that its not a black and white choice between mmp and fpp, but anyway thats another topoic.

Hope you have a better afternoon.....


btw: my point on public transport was never addressed, so i dont consider to have lost...

 
At 26/8/08 10:23 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"As for the above, I love democracy enough to protect a system that doesn't give the same old elites the same old power system."

Nice spin, now do you want to answer the question?

 
At 26/8/08 10:29 am, Anonymous lock and load said...

she just did, I love democracy enough to protect a system that doesn't give the same old elites the same old power system."

 
At 26/8/08 10:44 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love democracy enough to give people a say

 
At 26/8/08 10:51 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Manup LOL and tell us all how you expect to solve the transport solution, that is if you have one.

I have one actually.

We can correl all the poor people into high density urban centres similar to the housing estates in the UK or the projects in the US which will be close to transport nodes thus eliminating any necessity to travel via private transport.

Sure there will be the obvious high crime rates, obscene poverty and overcrowding but it's a small price to pay to address the reality of climate change and peak oil.

Just call it collatoral damage.

We'll leave all the rich in the suburbs with their private cars but tax the shit out of them cos they can afford.

How about that solution?

 
At 26/8/08 12:17 pm, Anonymous sdm said...

I actually think thats the proposal anon.

Never let pragmatism beat ideology.

 
At 26/8/08 4:02 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well anther proposal is to let the population run down so that the replacement rate falls below zero. This is a situation that Japan now finds itself in.

By doing this we we lower the actual demand for transport and housing and ultimately NZ's entire carbon footprint.

However this is good for NZer's of European stock since they have a low birthrate anyway.

But Maori and Pacific Islanders have higher birthrate so we'll have to deal with them initially through coercive strategies like forced abortion and re-education. If that doesn't work we can deport them back to their Island of origin or sterilise them. I'm sure the Chinese government can offer us some advice.

Anyway no price is to great to pay so we can lower our carbon emissions. I'm sure our ethnic citizens would welcome the chance to help combat global warming.

 

Post a Comment

<< Home