- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Tuesday, May 20, 2008

Burn down Bro Town


Pacific migrants 'drain on economy'
Pacific Islanders' crime rates, poor education and low employment are creating an underclass and a drain on the economy, a study says. Economist Greg Clydesdale, of Massey University's management and international business department, warns that Polynesians display "significant and enduring under-achievement" - a problem immigration is making worse. However, community leaders and Pacific Island Affairs Minister Winnie Laban strongly reject the underclass claims and condemn the study as "lazy and unprofessional". The document, part of a three year-study called Growing Pains, Evaluations and the Cost of Human Capital, is based on government data from the Economic Development Ministry, Labour Department and Pacific Island Affairs Ministry. It includes a study of the effects of all immigrants on the economy and will be presented at a conference in Brazil in July. Issued last week, the document says Polynesians are less productive and less likely to contribute to economic growth. They have the highest unemployment in every age group, are less likely to start businesses and have lower rates of self-employment. Polynesians are over-represented in crime statistics and have higher rates of convictions and prosecutions. They are also more likely to be victims of violent crime. They are more likely to need Government assistance for housing and income. "Of particular concern is the large Polynesian subculture whose educational achievements mean they will contribute very poorly in this regard," Dr Clydesdale says. "And because of high fertility and current immigration levels, New Zealand will have a significant population that can contribute little to economic growth." Dr Clydesdale also claims Pacific Island children show low achievement in literacy on entering school and perform poorly throughout their education.

Jesus mate, what do you really mean, I feel you are holding back. Yes there are problems in the PI community, we have known that for a very long time but there have been piss all investment into those communities just as there has been piss all investment in Maori or in fact any poor community. Look at the unholy alliance Len Brown has with some PI ‘leaders’ who were given $400 000 to build community recording studios which have been hijacked by their Church members and certainly are not free, and have more to do with building their religious empires than building communities, so the little that does get to them always gets sucked up by the bloody church! This report should be used as a wake up call that these communities need investment, what it will actually be used for is the Talkback lynch mob who will howl that we need a cleansing to burn down bro town and drive them out of the country.

Neat.

58 Comments:

At 20/5/08 8:01 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"This report should be used as a wake up call that these communities need investment"

Did you not just state above this comment that money that is invested goes straight to the church?

Why throw good money after bad?

Also why do other migrant communities flourish, while PI communities don't?

 
At 20/5/08 8:23 am, Blogger Bomber said...

...
Yes a lot goes to the church but I see that as part of the problem not part of the solution

 
At 20/5/08 8:35 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are four investigations into the Immigration Department now apparently. Does anyone know what the other three are? Will be interesting to see the outcomes.

NS

 
At 20/5/08 8:41 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"just as there has been piss all investment in Maori or in fact any poor community"

Are you serious, piss all investment in Maori?, compared to any single other group in this country Maori have had far more money poured in their direction.

Pouring money at the problem won't make it go away. The problem is a cultural one, not a monetary one. Look at all the asian migrants who come here without a cent, they work their arses off in crappy takeaways or dairies to ensure a future for their children. They live in the same poverty stricken areas and face the exact same problems but you don't see them committing crime, beating their wives, neglecting their children and allowing their children to run around in youth gangs terrorising the streets.

Its because they come from a culture where education, hardwork and children are paramount.

It is a cultural problem, one which pacific leaders need to address rather than just dismiss studies like this which aren't subverted by PC pandering as racist. Its also telling when you have the Pacific Island Affairs Minister Winnie Laban promoting sports stars such as Jerry Collins and Valerie Vili as examples of Pacific Island success stories rather than business leaders or people really helping communities. And then she goes on to deny that they are becoming an underclass, wonder if she has been to Rewa or Otara recently.

 
At 20/5/08 8:43 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why do Indian immigrants do so much better that Polynesian immigrants?

 
At 20/5/08 8:47 am, Blogger Bomber said...

...
Are you serious, piss all investment in Maori?, compared to any single other group in this country Maori have had far more money poured in their direction.
Maaaaate - while you make some good points in your post, I have to pull you up on this - when you compare how much Maori land was confiscated and the value that is returned for that confiscation is usually about 1% - hardly pouring money back for land that was taken that placed them in that economic situation in the first place is it?

 
At 20/5/08 9:23 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bomber, you may find the study's results offensive but the truth hurts.

Stop being PC and have the balls to call a spade a spade: P.I. people new to lift their act.

 
At 20/5/08 9:58 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You could say the same underachieving thing about poor white people.

 
At 20/5/08 10:18 am, Blogger Bomber said...

...
Very good points libertyscott

 
At 20/5/08 10:33 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Why do Indian immigrants do so much better that Polynesian immigrants?"

How much of this is to do with average IQ & culture? It's well known that different population groups are exposed to different environmental pressures & develop different genetic traits.

If you look at IQ scores Asians outperform Europeans and this translates to their superior success in academics. There is considerable research on this by Richard Lynn at University of Ulster linking IQ with a nations productivity. Also Arthur Jensen & Phillippe Rushton.

Also, in terms of culture if you've visited Samoa you'll see the vastly different village type lifestyle where the Church plays a big part in their lives. They come to NZ & live in a cramped concrete suburban area & experience disclocation from the Church & the wider community supports they normally have. There are increasingly fewer low skill job opportunities so people struggle financially.

Instead you can see LA style gang culture filling the void with devastating results for those communities.

 
At 20/5/08 10:40 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maaaaate - while you make some good points in your post, I have to pull you up on this - when you compare how much Maori land was confiscated and the value that is returned for that confiscation is usually about 1% - hardly pouring money back for land that was taken that placed them in that economic situation in the first place is it?

Did you see 60 Minutes last night? they had a story on Maori in australia who are doing very well for themselves - one of the women even said the reason was because they didn't get any special treatment or handouts - they had to rely on themselves to stand up and make a difference because there was nothing to fall back on. Funnily enough they are all all doing waaaaaaaay better then they would in NZ, not a cent from the government to help them either.

 
At 20/5/08 11:28 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Helengrad,

How is pointing out those facts picking on Polynesians? If Europeans moved to Samoa and had higher rates of violent crime do you think it would just go unnoticed?

As for the bible, I don't think you can blame that for a groups academic performance or crime rates.

Tribal cultures tended to have a high level of violent conflict & intertribal war in any case. So, I'm not sure what your point about the bible is really.

If you walk around Samoa on a Sunday you'll see many going to Church. It's hard to see how this has hurt their community. In contrast LA style gangs definitely are.

 
At 20/5/08 11:49 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you look at IQ scores...
pffffft!

Tribal cultures tended to have a high level of violent conflict
pffffffffft!

 
At 20/5/08 1:23 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lighten up guys, I just think helengrad just needs a hug or counselling. She(?) could also be under a compulsory mental health treatment order so don't be so hard on her.

 
At 20/5/08 1:31 pm, Blogger Ex-expat said...

Asian immigrants tend to come to New Zealand with a higher level of education than PI ones. Also the Asian community isn't devoid of crime it's just very few get reported to the police let alone the MSM.

 
At 20/5/08 1:53 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"and white women just so deeply stupid."

Helengrad - can you back that up with research or are you talking from experience again?

NS

 
At 20/5/08 2:09 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Asian immigrants tend to come to New Zealand with a higher level of education than PI ones. Also the Asian community isn't devoid of crime it's just very few get reported to the police let alone the MSM."

That's partially true, although many came here with relatively little education (the stereotypical Chinese takeways workers, or market gardening). Something that shows up though is that Asians outperform other groups on IQ tests, particularly th non-verbal component. That, along with cultural factors, may explain their relative academic success:

http://www.slate.com/id/2178122/entry/2178123/

 
At 20/5/08 2:36 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"How dare those commie femmie lesbos accuse the great white race of being pedophiles, racists and misogynists!"

Is there any race that isn't racist? Or misogynist for that matter?

 
At 20/5/08 2:57 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm an egalitarian bigot.

I hate everybody equally.

 
At 20/5/08 3:55 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Me too, but at least I pretend to care.

 
At 20/5/08 7:48 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Not one person who has posted in this thread knows anything about Polynesian culture or their lives in NZ. Any problems they have are because they are poor and had their culture destroyed by white missionaries and greedy white business men."

Helengrad,

You've said you've formed your opinions after reading plenty of books. What leads you to think their problems are due to having their culture destroyed by white missionaries?

Maybe you believe Rousseau's idea of the nobel savage - that without civilisation people are basically peaceful, egalitarian and live in harmony with the environment? Or maybe Margaret Mead who got hoaxed in Samoa (as revealed by the Samoan women she spoke to later).

The amount of data collected by anthropologists during the last decades, exposes the idea of the noble savage as nothing more than a myth.

"Carol Ember, cross-cultural researcher, documented that 90% of all known tribal groups practice war and 64% have one every two years, and William T. Divale, professor of anthropology at York College, studied 99 tribes from 37 different cultures, from which, 68 were engaged in warfare, 20 have had a war in the near past and the rest have had a war in the more distant past. From this study he concluded that conflicts, violence and war are human universals."

http://web.mac.com/paulabourges/chilicondarwin/News/Entries/2007/3/19_Hobbes_Vs._Rousseau.html

 
At 20/5/08 8:34 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

evolution hasnt caught up is all, give em a chance

 
At 20/5/08 11:15 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

yep, you're absolutely right about the newstalk crowd prob feasting on this report and nodding to each other wearing their 10 gallon cowboy hats and saying.. 'We told u so'.

And yeh yeh... islanders placing their money into church etc. same old PI Bashing.

What pisses me off, is that, with all the achievements we've done they dont seem to highlight that?

How bout an All Blacks team led by a PI that brings in untold revenue by way of media coverage and royalties...or the fact that PIs have been flourishing in this country for decades with tax paying citizens far outweighing the crims and dole bludgers?

there are other reasons why our economy is being drained... not our fault all the whitey skilled students headed over to the UK.

Or the fact that honkys choose to have small families?

so...they got no one to blame but themselves?

i guess there's racism in all of us...just sux that honkeys always seem to get their racist view published and headlined in leading newspapers.

 
At 20/5/08 11:27 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh and in regard to the comment:

"Asian immigrants tend to come to New Zealand with a higher level of education than PI ones..."

yeh, if they have such high IQs then why do they know fuckall about driving and that ordering deep fried fish is not the same as deep fried cats tail. (ref.Hong Kong Food City closure, Manukau City.)

how bout dem apples.

 
At 21/5/08 8:40 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey the411, probably best you don't use the word "honkey" to get a point across or otherwise someone might call you a "nigger" in return. No me though - I would never do that. To me, you're just another immigrant.

 
At 21/5/08 8:44 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

the 411,

Is calling people "whitey" or "honkey" really helping your argument? It makes you sound like an ugly racist.

 
At 21/5/08 10:40 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

well, fuck, if thats not the pot calling the kettle black then ...
if any of you had any brain cells, you would know that the definition of racism, is
"a form of discrimination based on race, especially the belief that one race is superior to another."

therefore, if oppressed races are reacting against those forms of discrimination, then it's not racist. And that's not being PC, that's a literal fact.

If you knew your NZ history, you would know systemic racism in Maori racism and also in the way NZ handled the Mau in Samoa?

So...basically, I kinda have a right to call you fucken honkey..

how dem apples again?

 
At 21/5/08 11:14 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

racisim only works one way, its sweet for black people to call a white person white but its a crime to call a black person black. i hope this clears it up for a lot of you. we all know it, we just pretend we dont.

 
At 21/5/08 11:39 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

the 411,

Racism is prejudice and discrimination based on race. That is exactly what you are engaging in with your ugly name calling based on peoples race.

You're an embarrassment to Pasifika people.

 
At 21/5/08 11:55 am, Blogger Unknown said...

all this is sooo sad! Aotearoa is a country full of migrants black brown white whatever... i cant believe how low some people have hit in this blog - i am a pacific islander studying at uni, with a job, dont beat people up or have gang affiliations...
Pacific people have contributed to NZ society in a positive way just like other diverse cultures that call NZ home.
with all the negative spin on pasifika people lately i feel alienated and threatened just because i am a pacific person who somehow needs to get my act together...
it is the negative perceptions and the undercurrent of racism that makes me feel i need extra support as a Pacific person that was born and raised in Aotearoa...
not because im a 'special needs darkie'

any way as NZ'ers we are all pacific people - Aotearoa is a pacific country is it not?

where is the luv?

by the way I HEART WINNIE LABAN!

 
At 21/5/08 12:02 pm, Blogger Unknown said...

racisim only works one way, its sweet for black people to call a white person white but its a crime to call a black person black. i hope this clears it up for a lot of you. we all know it, we just pretend we dont.

im sorry but i dont believe this is true. in reference to colour i think i am brown in the summer and white in the winter :) - i think its odd for 'white' people to call 'black' people black because usually they are brown... i dont believe racism is one way at all, and i dont pretend to not know what you seem to 'know' at all...

 
At 21/5/08 12:13 pm, Blogger Unknown said...

wow - that was smart...

considering how loaded the history of that word is i find the use of it highly offensive from a people perspective, not just a pacific one...

 
At 21/5/08 12:27 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Helengrad,

Given your pathological hatred towards anyone white, has it occured to you that you might be as racist as the people you are condemning?

Calling people names based on their skin colour doesn't help anyone.

 
At 21/5/08 1:32 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am 'PERSON' / 'HUMAN' would like to put out a thought!

As Melani Anae's study states:

"anyone can become the definers of culture, cultural identity and ethnicity of 'other' groups and in doing so, become enmeshed in the practice of pan-ethnic labelling which distorts the reality of peoples caught within their identities"

-"PACIFIC ISLANDERS EXIST ONLY IN NEW ZEALAND!"

I think it is of a time where we can move on from trying to label and define ourselves, and help each other out,support each other..

Who is a 'drain' on New Zealand economy?

I know.... PACIFIC ISLANDERS backed up with 'labelled statistics'

All I know is that this world is going around and around in circles look at history. Look at some of these coments...

GREAT HOPE FOR A FUTRE?

 
At 21/5/08 1:56 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Polynesian people are the nicest, kindest, most accepting and generous people I have ever met"

Positive stereotyping is every bit as harmful as negative stereo typing Helengrad, shame on you.

 
At 21/5/08 2:27 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This one just about takes the cake though doesn't it...

"I never would because I'm not a stuck up racist arsehole. In my opinion, Polynesian people are the nicest, kindest, most accepting and generous people I have ever met. It's really disgusting to see you white bastards trash their culture..."

Two clear and obvious racist comments from one who claims not to be a stuck up racist arsehole.

You are a fantastic source of amusement helengrad.

Dumbass

NS

 
At 21/5/08 6:22 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

white girl wanna buy sum P

chur chur

 
At 21/5/08 6:30 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

For a view of PI life taht you don't see in the news. have a look you might learn something different.

http://www.teara.govt.nz/NewZealanders/NewZealandPeoples/Samoans/4/en

 
At 21/5/08 8:43 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, a sanitised government website about Samoans. Great comeback.

 
At 22/5/08 9:51 am, Blogger Unknown said...

essentially, everyone is an immigrant except for the maoris ... i just love everyone and their mature comments

 
At 22/5/08 9:53 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How are the Maori not immigrants?

 
At 22/5/08 10:01 am, Blogger Unknown said...

how are palagi people not?

 
At 22/5/08 10:37 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I didn't say that (and don't call us Palagi - that's a foreign word for us. Europeans are made up of over a hundred different cultures). Are Maori not immigrants?

 
At 22/5/08 10:43 am, Blogger Unknown said...

palagi is not derrogatory like a lot of other names i have seen on here - and is it because it is a different language that you dont like it? do u know what it means exactly? out of all the cultures in NZ maori are the closest you can get to not being an immigrant.

how ego and ethnocentric can you get?

and um how are palagis not immigrants? because it seems using the label 'immigrant' has only been applied to pacific people in this blog

 
At 22/5/08 12:06 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

maori came here in boats, same as whitey, handle it that your immigrants too.
let me help you all here to explain what the average normal kiwi family thinks of maori and land claims and all that bullshit.
YOU LOST! WE WON! We didnt get the world cup this year because we just wernt good enough to win. End of story. Are you suggesting we go to SA and ask for it because we are a much smaller nation of people than them and therfore we deserve it? You guys tried, but in the end you just were to weak to win. WE WON! Sure, you might have won some minor victories but in the end it certainly wasnt us who turned up to sign the treaty! Thats why no one gives a shit about you and giving your land back. Sure, well give you areas where we dont go and have little value to us but fucked if were giving anything of value back! You traded it for blankets! Too bad you didnt know its eventual value!
Thats what pretty much the whole of NZ thinks everytime we see you singing and crying about getting shit back, why the government REALLLLLY dosnt pay anything more than lip service to you guys. Because we just dont care what the losers have to say!
I also love how honkey isnt the same as nigger-it just goes to show you how only white people can be racist and backward islanders who were only here to be pretty much an almost slave labour force can be as racist as they like because HEY, no one expects much from them anyway!

 
At 22/5/08 12:31 pm, Blogger Unknown said...

fyi - no whitey is most definitely not the same as nigger no matter what spin you put on it i would love for you to shout your outrageous claims about the word nigger to african americans to see exactly what response you might get... sad.

Your take on Aotearoa and race relations is SAD.

the world cup does not equate to the treaty of waitangi situation... silly & insensitive comparison again.

and you yourself do not speak for nor represent EVERY 'average' family in NZ sorry.

and whatever your definition of 'white' is? no you are not the only person who can be racist - anyone can regardless of skin colour...another silly point of comparison.

who exactly is this "WE" you refer to? your definition of "WHITE" i dont understand - what about half-castes? how do they fit into your distinction of winners and losers? sad...sad...sad...

i hope that sooner or later your hostility towards race relations wans and you look forward to the united future of Aotearoa :)

not the separation inherent in labelling one ethnic group for all the problems we have as a collective.

i am of samoan, niuean, european descent and i call Aotearoa NZ home and i want to feel safe in my sense of belonging to such a beautiful place

*palagi (pa -like broke, lagi - like sky) is in reference to the way the european colonisers broke the horizon/sky when they came on their ships, which i think is a great and beautiful metaphor :)

 
At 22/5/08 12:52 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am the anon at 10.37 am but I'm not the same anon at 12.06 pm FYI. I should register a name I suppose but I can't really be arsed ...

 
At 22/5/08 1:58 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"maori lost, we all know that, hence the reason you dont get your land back."

WTF? Surely during the tribunal process Maori are getting at least some of their land back?

NS

 
At 22/5/08 6:28 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

who cares what you believe, its what the majority believe not what the minority believe! (i do love how your avoiding the -you lost we won argument!) want to stop any hatered towards your people-heres some steps!
stop wearing hoodies and stealing cars!!!
*stop talking like you have no education when you do!
*learn that respect isnt something that physical strenght brings you!
*be polite!
*stop singing and going to protests that noone gives a fuck about!
*stop singing and bitching about how your culture needs to be respected and then try and dress like american gangstas!

if you fit into the society that rules not the one you are trying to make you guys might get some respect!

also, as an after thought, please tell me a white nickname that you do believe is as bad as nigger! let me guess, nothing is that bad! go hang out with bomber and sing com-by ya!

 
At 22/5/08 6:36 pm, Blogger Unknown said...

thanks for that enlightened response

wishing you all the best anonymous

x fetu-ole-moana

 
At 22/5/08 7:05 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

glad you appreciate it-good to see someone realsies what the majority think!

 
At 22/5/08 7:11 pm, Blogger Unknown said...

yes we all "realsies" exactly what you think

thanks :)

 
At 22/5/08 10:54 pm, Blogger Unknown said...

nice...
fyi im in my final year at uni
i DO in fact have two jobs (shock horror im not on the benefit?) and im not looking for an argument or to be harrassed based on your clearly racist perceptions- i began this posting business thinking that i would get some intelligent discussion ... my loss ha :)
i honestly do wish you the best and request you refrain from assuming who i am in such an offensive way

kindest regards anonymous, really.

 
At 23/5/08 10:39 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

lol! you do go to maunkau tech! hahahahaha! not a single question answered! i love it!

 
At 23/5/08 2:31 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

lol! what a come back! i live in wellington! like thats a good thing! wellington-wot! ahahahahaha!

 
At 24/5/08 4:38 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

look, im sorry, i hate to descend to anyones level but i kinda had to to show you what your responses were like.

 
At 24/5/08 5:45 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dr Clydesdale put out a statement claiming he didnt say Polynesians were a 'drain on the economy'. His original press release said Polynesian immigration was fueling an under-class. He's right.

 
At 23/6/08 4:39 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The latest is that the paper has been rejected and Clydesdale's registration fee is to be refunded. Having read the report, it was utter shite.

Oh and thats from me ... a supposed drain on economy.

 

Post a Comment

<< Home