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Monday, October 15, 2007

The shit is REALLY going to hit the fan

I've just come back from talking with some people in the activist community who have an idea of what is going on here, and if the allegations as I understand them are true, this country is about to get very, very, very angry. The revelations had my jaw fall open - though I don't believe for one moment what will be revealed is anything more than stupid arrogant boasts on the behalf of those who have been caught, middle NZ will recoil in horror and the right wing are about to be handed the most devestating home goal from a group of clowns who are about to set off a chain reaction the ends of which simply can't be determined.

two things seem certain:

I: God forgive me, but as I understand it (and I'm open to being wrong, please let me be wrong) BUT the Police look like they were right to be concerned
2: There is going to be outrage when the full story gets out the likes of which talkback have never dreamt of.

Things are about to get really bumpy and I fear where this is going to end. I'm going to bed in the hope this is all one bad dream.

48 Comments:

At 15/10/07 9:05 pm, Anonymous rangi said...

what are you talking about man

 
At 15/10/07 9:34 pm, Blogger Craig Ranapia said...

Bomber:

Not for the first time, I do hope you're totally wrong but you might be surprised why.

I don't actually think opening your mouth and speaking fluent Moron isn't (or should be) a crime; and some idiots fucking around in the black blocks, and blathering about The Revolution (TM) somewhere in Aro Valley isn't even on the same planet as Al Quaeda.

I don't want this - whatever it is - becoming a Trojan Horse to get a bill that makes a bad Suppression of Terrorism Act even worse through the House.

 
At 15/10/07 9:43 pm, Anonymous rangi said...

can someone please fill me in?

 
At 15/10/07 10:18 pm, Anonymous Legio X said...

Uh rangi, I hate to tell you this mate, but........the revolution's over.

 
At 15/10/07 10:30 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kiwiblog had the name of one of those arrested but due to suppression orders it has now been deleted.

That'll teach them for desecrating ANZAC day.

 
At 15/10/07 10:33 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

rangi dont worry about legio he know just as much as you do... they are now accusing maori of being terrorist in our own country.... because some of us believe in the whakaputanga of 1835... of course they will say its about guns and hats and camo gear. yet one must ask if it is only about that why is the media not aloud in

Hated By Most

 
At 15/10/07 10:51 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL
You can smell the fear on the indymedia board.
Let's see them 'resist' this one.

 
At 15/10/07 11:50 pm, Blogger Barnsley Bill said...

Yhis is all about the EFB and whatever other democracy ending tricks Clarke has up her sleeve.It will be a few radicals living at the end of that road talking tough after a crate or three.

 
At 16/10/07 12:08 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Barnsley Bill,

what is EFB?

Julio

 
At 16/10/07 4:31 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Electoral Finance Bill. The Labour party's answer to shutting down free speech in election years as of 2008.

 
At 16/10/07 6:13 am, Blogger Bomber said...

...
Bomber:

Not for the first time, I do hope you're totally wrong but you might be surprised why.

I don't actually think opening your mouth and speaking fluent Moron isn't (or should be) a crime; and some idiots fucking around in the black blocks, and blathering about The Revolution (TM) somewhere in Aro Valley isn't even on the same planet as Al Quaeda.

I don't want this - whatever it is - becoming a Trojan Horse to get a bill that makes a bad Suppression of Terrorism Act even worse through the House.


Barnsley Bill said...
Yhis is all about the EFB and whatever other democracy ending tricks Clarke has up her sleeve.It will be a few radicals living at the end of that road talking tough after a crate or three


Hey guys - you have hit the nail on the head - but when it comes out what they were planning Middle NZ is going to go fucking nuts

 
At 16/10/07 8:29 am, Blogger Barnsley Bill said...

Planning or talking tough after a skinfull.
This is about Clarke's attempt to claw her way back up the greased pole of public favour and to lubricate the new anti terror laws that give her sole responsibility to determine who is or who is not a terrorist. Couple that with her electoral finance bill and we have a nice little dictatorship in the making.

 
At 16/10/07 8:40 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

somehow I don't think that I group of maori radicals engaged in military training would worry about the EFB.
As for the implication that it was all part of Helen's master plan the timing is all wrong.

 
At 16/10/07 9:47 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bomber what the hell do you think you are doing? First you turn up to an event full of activists and pretend to care then you run home to your computer and start splashing shit round the web about the people being held.

The rest of us know when to keep our mouths shut and see what happens, if you turn up to meetings again I will make sure you are kept in your rightful place - outside with the media far away from the real activists.

Learn to shut your mouth and keep your concerns to yourself

 
At 16/10/07 11:05 am, Anonymous Legio X said...

Told off by an Anon Bo ber?. Tisk, tisk.

Didn't they tell you its all supposed to be a secret?

Now you've outed them for their secret discussions.

What else were they talking about Bo ber? Huh?.

What else are your (ex?)friends trying to keep secret?

I sure whatever it is is just for our own good, right?

 
At 16/10/07 11:22 am, Blogger Bomber said...

...
Shut up lego

Bomber what the hell do you think you are doing? First you turn up to an event full of activists and pretend to care then you run home to your computer and start splashing shit round the web about the people being held.

HEY - I'm as fucking concerned as anyone about what is happening here so let's not play the loyalty game ok, I've yelled as long and as hard about police powers as anyone, but what concerns me most is the way the full allegatations is going to play out in the mainstream, and those concerns are valid.

The rest of us know when to keep our mouths shut and see what happens, if you turn up to meetings again I will make sure you are kept in your rightful place - outside with the media far away from the real activists.

Ahh, the schism begins, and shall we talk about what those 'real' activists and the stupid fucking stuff they've been up to? I am as angry and passionate about social justice as anyone - but the second you start taking up arms is where I get off the truck bub - Nelson Mandela - "the oppressor dictates the nature of the struggle", yes there is injustice in nz, yes there is abuse by cops and the political elite BUT we live in a democracy, there is no justification for going to these extremes - Do I think for one second Iti and his band of merry miltants are terrorists? No way, not ever, but do I think that middle NZ will go nuts when they hear what a bunch of people a bit too high on their own supply were boasting and the way that will be manipulated by the cops and the media? Yes Housten, we have a major problem.

Learn to shut your mouth and keep your concerns to yourself

Great, I've got the cops AND 'others' to worry about now have I?

 
At 16/10/07 11:27 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You turned up, talked to people and ran home a few minutes later to start boasting of your inside scoop, you sure as hell better not be like this the entire case.

Being friends with these people and hurting about their arrest doesnt change the fact that you are asking questions which shouldnt be asked and are boasting of your inside line on a public blog. If everyone asks as many innapropriate questions as you seem to have then of course "the shit is really going to hit the fan" as you so accurately put it.

 
At 16/10/07 11:36 am, Blogger Bomber said...

...
Boasting? I'm banging my head here at what a pack of bloody clowns are about to do to the movement I have fought VERY long and hard for, I'm angry, and as for inside line - YOU GUYS INVITED ME. I'll expect not to be on the Christmas Card list this year.

 
At 16/10/07 11:37 am, Anonymous Legio X said...

Also the lead story on Stuff

 
At 16/10/07 11:50 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are those who have better access to some groups than others. Bomber, I'm sure that you would be privy to some information that the MSM would not be, and I applaud you for having the balls to make your feelings known.

I can understand your fear that these idiots have harmed the causes that you might beleive in. I probably don't share your views politically speaking, but the shit is very likely to hit the fan.

This is the politcal rights greatest fear, and biggest wet dream.

Some would do well to remember Gandhi, who achieved some of the greatest political cahnge in his lifetime, who said that there were many causes for which he was prepared to die but no cause in which he was prepared to kill.

 
At 16/10/07 11:51 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"
Being friends with these people and hurting about their arrest doesnt change the fact that you are asking questions which shouldnt be asked and are boasting of your inside line on a public blog. If everyone asks as many innapropriate questions as you seem to have then of course "the shit is really going to hit the fan" as you so accurately put it."

Heh if you've done nothing wrong and its all just a big beat-up by those evil pigs what on earth are you trying to hide and why are you so scared of questions?

No doubt your the same clown spouting off about not talking to Mr Bradbury on the Indymedia site as well aren't you. You might want to address the hypocrisy in having all those articles urging people to protest at a weapons conference when you then go on and condone a bunch of people running around with AK47's and molotov cocktails threatening violence.

"N"

 
At 16/10/07 11:59 am, Anonymous DangerMouse said...

"...asking questions which shouldnt be asked..."

No such thing

 
At 16/10/07 12:01 pm, Blogger ¤°Z°¤-Luke-¤°Z°¤° said...

not all political assasinations/coups have been bad in the long run...

 
At 16/10/07 12:08 pm, Anonymous Legio X said...

Very constructive luke.

Could you let us know which ones are good please?

 
At 16/10/07 12:49 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ditto - 'questions that shouldn't be asked'????????????????????????????

 
At 16/10/07 3:53 pm, Anonymous rangi said...

this secret squirrel stuff is bullshit. im politically left (vote green 08!) but i never knew that activism was a secret club...

 
At 16/10/07 3:55 pm, Anonymous rangi said...

luke, live by the sword, die by the sword buddy. and they have much bigger swords than us (other than the ones in their pants)

thx hated by most! it's cool to see you still around.

 
At 16/10/07 4:12 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We do not know, as yet, whether there is any foundation for these allegations of armed training etc.

"Heh if you've done nothing wrong and its all just a big beat-up by those evil pigs what on earth are you trying to hide and why are you so scared of questions?"

Because people, like Bomber, who post half-cocked, half-informed garbage like this online can lead to people assuming the worst. Quotes taken out of context and half-truths can be used to paint the innocent as guilty.

 
At 16/10/07 4:44 pm, Anonymous Legio X said...

Or the guilty as innocent

 
At 16/10/07 5:05 pm, Blogger ¤°Z°¤-Luke-¤°Z°¤° said...

Sorry i was rushed but what i meant to say is that the assassinations of people in the name of politics have a lot of the time, if not always, brought people aware to important issues...in no way am i condoning the killing of any person but just pointing out that the world becomes more aware when you go to such extremes.

 
At 16/10/07 5:17 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"brought people aware to important issues...in no way am i condoning the killing of any person but just pointing out that the world becomes more aware when you go to such extremes."

Yeah like we killed this woman and blew up some other people to protect this special breed of snails.

We are good people, no really.

 
At 16/10/07 5:36 pm, Blogger ¤°Z°¤-Luke-¤°Z°¤° said...

idiot...what i said was in reference to the past with issues such as racism and corruption in the US government (JFK).

When i said "the world becomes more aware when you go to such extremes<" by that i mean media exposure.

And don't try to be smart in your go at me by trying to suggest they're doing what they're doing in the name of a snail, that's just ignorant to your argument and has no filling.

 
At 16/10/07 5:43 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"And don't try to be smart in your go at me by trying to suggest they're doing what they're doing in the name of a snail, that's just ignorant to your argument and has no filling."

Or what you will use violence against me just like those arrested?

 
At 16/10/07 5:48 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

viva la snail

 
At 16/10/07 6:03 pm, Blogger ¤°Z°¤-Luke-¤°Z°¤° said...

"Or what you will use violence against me just like those arrested?"

No, you just embarrass yourself because you can't prove me wrong in a online debate with any rebuttal, just cheap shots.

Violence is definitely not necessary lol

 
At 16/10/07 7:28 pm, Blogger rangi said...

violence = wrong

 
At 16/10/07 10:19 pm, Anonymous Auntie said...

bout time that soap dodging benefit bludging commie Iti was put away.

 
At 16/10/07 10:21 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nah he's well worth the entertainment to us that his dole provides. Money well spent i say.

 
At 16/10/07 10:48 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am for non violence as long as it works

Hated By Most

 
At 16/10/07 11:36 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 17/10/07 12:25 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now, to clarify 'Bomber', when you say "what they were planning" are you sure you don't want to add something along the lines of "What the Police CLAIM..."

Sounds like Innuendo until proven guilty. You're spreading fear and accusations of guilt (please also remember that the Crown is wanting to prosecute these people together) before even seeing any evidence - other than talking to a couple of Unite members and seeing a Search Warrant. Shame.

 
At 17/10/07 6:04 am, Blogger Bomber said...

...
Now, to clarify 'Bomber', when you say "what they were planning" are you sure you don't want to add something along the lines of "What the Police CLAIM..."

Sounds like Innuendo until proven guilty. You're spreading fear and accusations of guilt (please also remember that the Crown is wanting to prosecute these people together) before even seeing any evidence - other than talking to a couple of Unite members and seeing a Search Warrant. Shame.


You are right - these are all allegations and I've said that - I think any one who has read this site will be fully aware I am no fan of the Police, and like I have said several times already - I don't for one second believe that any of them are terrorists and that if you followed me around long enough (a year?) you would hear me say all sorts of stupid things - but I also think that some people are being a bit optimistic if they can't see what the potential damage of this is going to be, middle NZ are not going to understand running around the woods with AK-47s, we all got jumpy when destiny church did their march down queen street in matching black shirts, running around the Ureweras in camo gear and guns isn't winning any friends - you pick up guns in a democracy and you lose the arguement. Shame

 
At 17/10/07 6:17 am, Blogger Bomber said...

...
PS - I haven't come to this conclusion based on simply talking to people at Unite - If I did that I would have expected the peoples revolution to have occured around 2pm on a Saturday last month.

 
At 17/10/07 5:43 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tame Titty wouldn't know who to bomb anyway. One minute he supports George Speight and the next he's sucking up to Frank (Georges enemy) Bananarama.
Most of you "activists" seem to be a few Huhu grubs short of a hangi anyway!

 
At 18/10/07 9:11 am, Anonymous Dean West said...

Section 6 of the Suppression of Terrorism Act 2002 makes the Act into one that binds the Crown. I have to ask myself: Why on earth would any government pass a law that included itself as a possible "terrorist"? Not too sharp. Let's see, has the New Zealand Government ever "induce[d] terror in a civilian population" for political purposes, causing death and significant destruction? Well, damn it, the 1860s come to mind ...

It's a clear cut case. And the implications are severe.

Section 13 now makes it illegal to participate in such a group - which means the Police should start rounding up not only the Labour Government, but the judiciary and entire civil service. Yes - it is now illegal to be a bureaucrat in New Zealand. Of course, the Police would then have to lock themselves up.

And yet, the consequences are even more far-reaching than that. Section 8(2A), inserted by the 2005 Amendment Act, makes it an offence if someone "provides or collects funds intending that they benefit, or knowing that they will benefit, an entity that the person knows is an entity that carries out, or participates in the carrying out of, 1 or more terrorist acts". You know what this means - it has now become illegal to pay tax to the New Zealand Government. And about time, too.

That's how I interpret the law, anyway, and Jane Kelsey and co at the Auckland Law School did give me a law degree once. So, Citizens, consider it your lawful duty:

- Don't pay tax to the Government! Bloody terrorists!!
- The next time you deal with a civil servant, make a 'Citizen's arrest', take them to the Police station, and then have the Police arrest themselves as well!


Organisations such as the the NZ Government, who are known to have committed terrorist acts in the past, must be stopped! It's a war out there.

 
At 18/10/07 1:33 pm, Blogger lurgee said...

has the New Zealand Government ever "induce[d] terror in a civilian population" for political purposes, causing death and significant destruction? Well, damn it, the 1860s come to mind ...

It is very rare to apply legislation retrospectively.

If the stories aboutt he an "IRA style campaign" are correct, I'd beg the para-militaries / activists / would-be terrorists to reconsider. The IRA failed to accomplish their aims and eventually gave up. Ditto the Palestinians, whose tendency to blow themselves and Israelis up only helped the rightwing take over of Israeli politics. ETA still haven't anaged to liberate the Basques from the yoke of Spanish oppression.

I'm also peturbed by the number of avowed socialists coming out in support of racial seperatists. The goals of the two could not be further apart. Engage brains people! If the left allies itself with anyone that opposes the IRON HEEL OF THE OLIGARCHS, then we should welcome the neo-Nazis and the loopy Destiny people. Our enemies enemy is not our friend.

 
At 18/10/07 2:01 pm, Anonymous Dean West said...

It is very rare to apply legislation retrospectively.

Arguably this factor is not relevant here, for current representatives or employees of the Government. Being a representative of the Crown is an action that occurred after the introduction of the Act. Paying tax to the Government occursafter the introduction of the Act. It's just that, since the introduction of the Act, the Government is arguably a group that carries out acts of terrorism (irrespective of when they occurred). This is not "retrospective" legislation for those individuals who decide to become or remain Government representatives after 2002.

Whatever the legal position, the irony of this interpretation is beautiful. The New Zealand Government has inadvertently designated all of its representatives and employees as “terrorists”.

And I agree with you on your main point in your post: Maori para-military groups are wankers, even if the Government were wankers first. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 
At 18/10/07 9:58 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"'m also peturbed by the number of avowed socialists coming out in support of racial seperatists."

Almost as unpleasant as the socialists support of Islamic fundamentalists here.

 

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