- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Tuesday, October 23, 2007

Police-raid opponents tone down criticism


Alt Tv/Fleet FM Breakfast News Comment
Police-raid opponents tone down criticism
Vocal critics of police raids on alleged terrorist-training camps in the Ureweras yesterday softened their stance, saying the threats had to be investigated. Activists and Maori Party and Green MPs have been skeptical about the existence of alleged camps for weapons training in the Ureweras or terrorist activity. However notice how everyones tone changes the second they are quietly shown what allegations the Police have and the evidence backing those allegations up. I have been roasted for apparently only speaking to a junior activist and going off on a publicity drive for myself by some in the activist community (criticism now ranges from me being ‘Greg Oconner’s bitch’ to being a CIA agent for the love of Christ), I’ve even had a ‘disinfo’ bomber clone created using my blogger profile by someone who has posted racist and homophobic comments all over the blogosphere purposely smearing and confusing what I have been saying, all because I’ve questioned things a little more carefully than others have . I’ve spoken to as many sources as I can over the weekend (and for the record I never spoke to a ‘junior’ activist) and everything I am hearing back seems more serious than I had originally thought, again let me re-iterate for some in the activist community – you pick up guns and plot violence for political means and you have no place in this movement. The real issues at hand now are due process for those who have been arrested, (none of us are comfortable with the idea that someone should be detained without charge) and we should start the discussion about what we are going to actually accept from the Police as evidence, because the Police MUST have more than just pisstalk if they want to have their actions seen as justified and for their own credibility, it has to be more than just shock value arrogant boasts made deep in the forest, it has to be plotting and there has to be evidence of capacity to commit those plots, I’m not (and I don’t think the rest of NZ are) going to accept people boasting about killing political leaders as terrorism, we are going to need to see real evidence of how they intended to do that before the Police get their credibility back.

I wonder which newspaper had their scoop knocked back due to the belief by Police that an attack was imminent?



25 Comments:

At 23/10/07 9:32 am, Blogger Mana said...

The Police realise they must bring charges on the 17 accused, they must; to justify the use of extreme measures; yet week 1 on and still no charges under the terrorist act, names and reasons for denying of bail, all suppressed; WHY? I thought they have been watching them for 22 months, yet still no charges, what evidence did they use to obtain the search warrants..

My own opinion; is one that these police wont admit there wrong, now their looking for any possible way to charge them under the terrorist act, having petrol bombs isn't enough to say their terrorist; we use petrol bombs in Northland to burn off scrub after clearing the land of dead trees, does that make my 83 year old Koro a terrorist too. Theirs no doubt they will have to charge some if not all, just wonder how much of the evidence they put forth will be assumptions and fabricated truth, something their well now for:

 
At 23/10/07 12:58 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Supression isn't always requested by the prosecution and were it to be requested by the defence lawyers the supression order can also include the request for supression.

Not that I have any evidence or knowledge whatsoever that the supression was requested by the defence, perish the thought...

 
At 23/10/07 1:39 pm, Blogger Mana said...

the suppression was order by the Judge

 
At 23/10/07 2:18 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Police realise they must bring charges on the 17 accused, they must; to justify the use of extreme measures; yet week 1 on and still no charges under the terrorist act, names and reasons for denying of bail, all suppressed; WHY? I thought they have been watching them for 22 months, yet still no charges, what evidence did they use to obtain the search warrants.."

They have brought numerous charges under the firearms act and I'm guessing the crimes act as well which is what they are being held in custody on.

Its the defense counsel's who are applying to suppress the hearings and the names of those involved, not the Police. So maybe you should be asking them they question as to what they have to hide, rather than the Police whose hands are tied.

Your extremely naive and rather stupid if you think this is just some big police beat up and that Tame and co just had an arsenal of guns, homemade bombs, terrorist training manuals and ran training camps because they are simply arms enthusiasts. Its about as ignorant a view as the activist community instantly painting the arrestee's as martyrs and suddenly finding a way to justify so-called peace activists running around with ak47's.

 
At 23/10/07 2:52 pm, Blogger Bomber said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 23/10/07 3:34 pm, Blogger Mana said...

Here you go anon, this is one of many:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dominionpost/4241220a6000.html

"We haven't yet had a chance to even discuss that with Mr Iti, that was a new set of charges unknown to the defence at that time."

Mr Jackson said Iti and his supporters were disappointed that he had been denied bail.

"Tomorrow we hope the judge will present his written reasons for declining the bail application."

He said the legal team were looking at appealing the decision to refuse bail but were disadvantaged because Judge James Rota did not expand on the reasons behind his ruling.


heres another Anon

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/071019/3/23vd.html

Judge Bouchier suppressed all evidence by Mr Sutcliffe and police prosecutor David Johnstone and also suppressed the reasons for denying bail.

And another one

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/071019/3/23vd.html

Judge Bruce Davidson heard bail applications for each of the accused from defence counsel, but refused all four.

His reasons were suppressed.

However, he noted the ruling was made without prejudice, meaning the four accused retained the right to appeal his decision.

They were remanded in custody until November 1, when their cases would be heard in Auckland District Court -- a two-day hearing for all of the accused has been scheduled.

Judge Davidson said he expected the issue of bail would be revisited within the next month.

The bail application was heard in a closed court, while outside, around 150 people gathered in support of the accused.

 
At 23/10/07 3:48 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Here you go anon, this is one of many:"

One of many what?

Its quite funny how the Police are damned if they do and damned if they don't by the extreme left in this instance. If they come out and prejudice any future trial by publicly revealing all the evidence they have they will be damned as propaganda merchants, if they let justice take its normal course and don't make public statements they are damned as being secretive and hiding the truth.

I'm interested to see the evidence that people appear to be privy too that this is all just a big police windup.

I guess the Police planted the guns, the IRA manual, the home-made bombs, doctored the video surveillance, doctored the intercepted texts and messages and then paid off numerous judges throughout the country so that these poor completely innocent activists would be remanded in custody?

"N"

 
At 23/10/07 5:04 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are wasting your time with Mana (or is it hated?) "N", he reads only the bits that they can make an incoherent rant out of. Then he demands proof and evidence while offer none to back up his own bullshit statements.

 
At 23/10/07 5:22 pm, Blogger Mana said...

Anonymous said...

MANA "Here you go anon, this is one of many:"

One of many what?
Sorry are you the same anon that posted "Supression isn't always requested by the prosecution and were it to be requested by the defence lawyers the supression order can also include the request for supression. This is what we were discussing anon so lets see your comment

Its quite funny how the Police are damned if they do and damned if they don't by the extreme left in this instance. If they come out and prejudice any future trial by publicly revealing all the evidence they have they will be damned as propaganda merchants, if they let justice take its normal course and don't make public statements they are damned as being secretive and hiding the truth.
Now thats deep "N" but it doesn't take a wise man to see that the police have damaged themselves, thats not even considering this incident; With the policeman that got fired in Manukau for excessive force, or the Taxis caper, how can we forget shipton and co and Rickards and Dewar, whatever ill feelings some of the public may have toward the NZ Police these people helped secure, now I understand more women are coming forward with more allegations against the NZ police; then of course you have the anons and co that post up stuff against the left, with of course, our favorite spin "that the Police can do no wrong" or "it's a dam hard job and who cares if they thump a suspect or beat him in handcuffs or pepper spray them while in handcuffs" But just for the record I am neither LEFT OR RIGHT; I support Maori having the right to manage its own affair as said in the 1852 NZ Constitution S71 9-10

I'm interested to see the evidence that people appear to be privy too that this is all just a big police windup.
That makes, all of us Anon, I wonder whats taking so long? I read that the police of SIS or whoever has been watching them in the jungle (bush) for 22 months and still we wait? hmmmmm why? they had evidence for a warrant, so why the delay?

I guess the Police planted the guns, the IRA manual, the home-made bombs, doctored the video surveillance, doctored the intercepted texts and messages and then paid off numerous judges throughout the country so that these poor completely innocent activists would be remanded in custody?
Now see with one breathe you say you'll wait for the evidence then you waffle off about this? IRA bomb book can be downloaded from the internet, that was a topic some months ago right here on Tumeke, the home made bombs part I liked, a petrol bomb, trust me isn't that sophisticated, my Koro users them to burn off scrub in the Northland, bit hard for a 80 year old to run from a burning scrubs and cut down trees. But all that aside; I'll wait for what evidence, I think we both know that if they have none, it will look bad for the police again. I guess you can come blame the lefty's for that.

 
At 23/10/07 5:30 pm, Blogger Mana said...

You are wasting your time with Mana (or is it hated?) "N", he reads only the bits that they can make an incoherent rant out of. Then he demands proof and evidence while offer none to back up his own bullshit statements.

Anon aren't you the one that spaz off about NZ Native, yet i proved you wrong and now your still having a spaz.... get over yourself. click on the flag thats who I am and I will only post in my name.

 
At 23/10/07 5:30 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bomber have you caught the person, the bogus Bomber

Hated by Most

 
At 23/10/07 5:33 pm, Blogger Mana said...

oh look at that anon; now what will you say? looks like your wrong again..

 
At 23/10/07 5:38 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Weasel words Mana. Of course the judge orders the supression, well the court does actually, but counsel requests the supression.

 
At 23/10/07 6:51 pm, Blogger Mana said...

Anonymous said...
Weasel words Mana. Of course the judge orders the supression, well the court does actually, but counsel requests the supression.

Anon does it anon you when being corrected yet again; here read it; "We haven't yet had a chance to even discuss that with Mr Iti, that was a new set of charges unknown to the defence at that time."
Mr Jackson said Iti and his supporters were disappointed that he had been denied bail.
"Tomorrow we hope the judge will present his written reasons for declining the bail application."

He said the legal team were looking at appealing the decision to refuse bail but were disadvantaged because Judge James Rota did not expand on the reasons behind his ruling.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dominionpost/4241220a6000.html

So did you see the bold part, (I added it just for you, because sharing is caring anon) Now my question; if the defence council asked for suppression Anon why were they wanting to appeal but couldn't because of WHY? hmmmmm; come on, sharpen up

 
At 23/10/07 8:47 pm, Blogger Bomber said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 23/10/07 8:56 pm, Blogger Mana said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 23/10/07 8:58 pm, Blogger Mana said...

Bro I hope the rear bomber openly and publicly humiliates you, I am so interested to see what you look like. ... "NOTE" real Bomber if you can obtain this person IP; I can have it traced through work, and will give you his details, isp details then its a complaint of misuse of telecommunications, But I am sure if the real bomber finds you I am sure we will know what you look like.

 
At 23/10/07 9:06 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anon does it anon you when being corrected yet again; here read it; "We haven't yet had a chance to even discuss that with Mr Iti, that was a new set of charges unknown to the defence at that time."
Mr Jackson said Iti and his supporters were disappointed that he had been denied bail.
"Tomorrow we hope the judge will present his written reasons for declining the bail application."
He said the legal team were looking at appealing the decision to refuse bail but were disadvantaged because Judge James Rota did not expand on the reasons behind his ruling."

What point are you trying to prove here, do you even know? What you've quoted is the defense wanting written reasons for the judges reason to deny bail so they could then appeal those exact points. It has nothing to do with information being suppressed by the prosecution at all, as the Defense counsel hears the police opposition to bail in court and has a chance to refute it. Of course if you had an inkling of knowledge you might have known this.

I'll explain this simply to you. The Police cannot release information that would prejudice the defendants right to a fair trial. They aren't suppressing it, they simply can't release it without creating the risk of a mistrial in the future. However it is the defense counsels who are the ones seeking continued name suppression and not releasing details as to the case against their clients which they are able to do.

Just do a bit of reading or at least gain a basic knowledge before you spout off about things you know nothing about.

 
At 23/10/07 11:59 pm, Blogger lurgee said...

Now thats deep "N" but it doesn't take a wise man to see that the police have damaged themselves, thats not even considering this incident; With the policeman that got fired in Manukau for excessive force, or the Taxis caper, how can we forget shipton and co and Rickards and Dewar, whatever ill feelings some of the public may have toward the NZ Police these people helped secure, now I understand more women are coming forward with more allegations against the NZ police

In fairness, police who offend are generally brought to jusice by the police. Shipton, Schollum and Dewar are in jail. Rickards is so discredited he'll never work as a policeman again. Lousie Nicholas has praised the police who investigated Dewar and said they have restored her faith in the force. if she can trust police, why can't you - just a little bit?

 
At 24/10/07 10:47 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mana Said
"I can have it traced through work, and will give you his details, isp details then its a complaint of misuse of telecommunications,"

Feel like getting fired buddy.

What YOU propose to do sounds like a misuse of communications.

Maybe someone should track down your IP and find out who your employer is to tell them that one of their employees is breaching privcy, misusing company resources and most probably violating their employment agreement.

 
At 24/10/07 1:29 pm, Blogger Mana said...

Anonymous said...
Mana Said
"I can have it traced through work, and will give you his details, isp details then its a complaint of misuse of telecommunications,"

Feel like getting fired buddy.
What YOU propose to do sounds like a misuse of communications.
Maybe someone should track down your IP and find out who your employer is to tell them that one of their employees is breaching privcy, misusing company resources and most probably violating their employment agreement.

Three things Anon; 1;I don't care, 2;I don't care and 3;shit I just don't care: I am more than happy to help the real bomber out, you more that willing to try and source my Ip which by the way is not a static IP address, I also wont get fired trust me on that one. But your welcome to give it a try, I doubt the police will look into such a petty inquiry. So if Bombers keen, I an more than happy to source that info for him..

 
At 24/10/07 3:17 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

See how low the terrorist sympathizers will stoop!!!! Even so low as to break the law themselves to pursue this fake bomber so than can use violence against him. I see no reason why Mr Mana should not be sitting in a cell with Tame Iti. I wonder how long they would be able to resist their sexual urges and resorted to marathon sessions of rimming.

 
At 24/10/07 5:26 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah well rimming aside, the point should be made that mana has no right to complain about 'illegal' police actions or the guilt of those accused because he himself is so eager to break the law.

How seriously can you take a guy who insists upon the observence of a law in regards to the treaty of waitangi but decides to openly flout an existing law.

There is a word beginning with 'H' to describe him.

 
At 24/10/07 7:45 pm, Blogger Mana said...

Tell me what law I will break please?

describe how i will break this law, using Tracert inst against the law what are you all on?

 
At 26/10/07 1:56 am, Blogger Mana said...

were did my accusers go?

 

Post a Comment

<< Home