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Thursday, October 25, 2007

Maori girls suffer 'horrific' rate of abuse


Alt Tv/Fleet FM Breakfast News Comment
Maori girls suffer 'horrific' rate of abuse
A new international survey has found one in four New Zealand girls is sexually abused before the age of 15, the highest rate of any country examined. The results show, for the first time, that Maori girls suffer roughly twice as much sexual abuse as European girls - 30.5 per cent of Maori compared with 17 per cent of Europeans in Auckland, and 35.1 per cent of Maori compared with 20.7 per cent of Europeans in the northern Waikato. With such difficult experiences to overcome from childhood, is it any wonder that some people end up as pretty damaged adults. Interestingly I heard last night on the news that the rate of abuse amongst boys could be higher so this is a major issue across the child population in NZ. When it comes to beating or molesting kids we seem to be world leaders, this is overwhelmingly a male problem (Uncles were the most common male perpetrators (24 per cent), followed by brothers/stepbrothers (14), fathers (13), cousins (11), stepfathers and grandfathers ( 9), other family members (5), family friends and acquaintances (14) and strangers (1)), and it seems to be just another symptom of a male culture so deeply repressed that sexual abuse becomes the norm. Throwing abusers in prison with no ability to rehabilitate is not the answer as most have been victims of abuse themselves. Want to stop the abusers of tomorrow, stop them being abused as kids today.

22 Comments:

At 25/10/07 8:50 am, Anonymous Butter said...

It would be very interesting to see the figures broken down to show how many of the abused children were living with their biological, married parents as opposed to those from broken homes or those living with an extended family. I think those in the latter group would outweigh by far those in the former.

When you look at the children murdered in this country recently most, if not all are from broken homes and are living in homes which either didn't have mum AND dad there or there were a number of other adults - family or not - living with them: Lilly Bing, Nia Glassie, Coral Burrows and sadly it seems I could go on for a while.

This seems to be why "Uncle" is the most common abuser, uncle can't abuse the kids unless he has access to them (most likely without mum and dad around), which says to me that either he is living with the family or the abused kids are living with him.

How well defined is "uncle"? Is it necessarily mum or dad's brother? Or is he a cousin or family friend.
I realise the article also has "other family members" and "family friends and acquaintances" listed as abusers, but I know a lot of people who have "uncles" who are either only distantly related to them or not all.

How many of the Maori kids being abused were living in whangai type arrangements? I think this is worth looking into.

How many of these kids had simply been shipped off to live with relatives out of convenience? I wonder if the pressure of lumped with someone else's child that one is expected to care and provide for leads to abuse? It isn't hard to imagine the new 'caregiver' feeling some resentment at this expectation.

Finally saying "it seems to be just another symptom of a male culture so deeply repressed..." completely exonerates the women who put their children in harms way, which is unfair and is a cop out.

Examples:
- To pretend that Nia Glassie's mother didn't know that Nia was being abused is absurd. Coral Burrow's mother knew her partner was using P, she should never have left her children in that scumbag's care.

- Craig Manukau's mother turned the radio volume up trying to drown the noise when the 11-year-old's father kicked him to death in their home.

- Delcelia Witika was bashed, burned and hit so hard that her appendix burst. She was left in her cot to die while her mother and her partner went socialising.

- Hinewaoriki (Lilly-bing) Karatiana-Matiana died from cerebral swelling after being shaken. She had bruising and lacerations to her genitals. She died in her cot on her second birthday while her mother was out partying. Two aunts who had been 'caring' for her were jailed.

Again, sadly, I could go on.

As hard as it may be for some people to acknowledge that the mothers have some responsibility for preventing the abuse of their children, simply pretending that this is some how only a male issue is fucking bullshit.

 
At 25/10/07 8:54 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

who is doing the abusing? The mothers or the 'uncles'?

 
At 25/10/07 9:03 am, Anonymous Butter said...

Anon:Perhaps you missed the bit at the end where Bomber said
"Want to stop the abusers of tomorrow, stop them being abused as kids today.

If mothers ignore the signs of abuse or,even worse, put their children in situations where abuse is more likely to occur (see the examples I gave above) then they should bear at least some of the responsibility.

 
At 25/10/07 10:01 am, Blogger Mana said...

abuse on any level is fucking stupid regardless on who does it..

 
At 25/10/07 12:56 pm, Anonymous Butter said...

Well that's a given Mana but hardly helpful.

Surely, like any problem, the more we know about who and what is causing the abuse, the better the chance we have of tackling it and making a difference.

 
At 25/10/07 1:40 pm, Anonymous survivor said...

butter,

I think you will find that the abuse is being meted out to the woman as well.

I left my partner because he started beating our children.
I left with nothing: no money, no clothes, no self-esteem, nothing.

So why don't we turn the spotlight back to where it belongs, on men.

 
At 25/10/07 2:10 pm, Anonymous Butter said...

Survivor

I'm sure abuse is meted out on women in many cases, but there is no way that you can make a blanket statement that it happens in every case.

As I said in an earlier post "Hinewaoriki (Lilly-bing) Karatiana-Matiana died from cerebral swelling after being shaken. She had bruising and lacerations to her genitals. She died in her cot on her second birthday while her mother was out partying. Two aunts who had been 'caring' for her were jailed."

This is just one example where the mother clearly wasn't being abused. Are we to just ignore these cases?

Another pertinent example is the mother who whipped her son with a riding crop which sparked the anti smacking debate.


"So why don't we turn the spotlight back to where it belongs, on men.

I don't accept that for one moment, I have sympathy for any victim of abuse but you can't simply shut down the debate and say this is a purely male problem. Like I said to Mana - the more we know about who and what is causing the abuse, the better the chance we have of tackling it and making a difference.

Saying that the spotlight deserves to be only on men isn't going to solve any the problem any more than saying "well its just a Maori problem"

 
At 25/10/07 5:06 pm, Anonymous SICK OF IT said...

TOTAL BULLSHIT FROM A FOREIGN ACADEMIC FEEDIN THE FIRES OF THE VICTIM MENTALITY ON TALKBACK AND GOADING THE LOCALS WHILE THEY ROLL AROUND IN THEIR MEGA-BUCK RESEARCH DOLLARS SPOUTING SHIT ABOUT US KIWI'S.HOW MUCH LONGER ARE WE GONNA PUT UP WITH THIS CRAP.REMEMBER THEY ARE NOW OVER HALF OF THE STUDENTS AND STAFF AT OUR VERY OWN UNIVERSITY.IT'S GOTTA END SOON.THEY EVEN WANNA COMMENT ON THE PUNCH UP AT PARLIAMENT ON THE NEWS.FUCK THAT!

 
At 25/10/07 11:34 pm, Blogger Mana said...

Butter said...
Well that's a given Mana but hardly helpful.
Surely, like any problem, the more we know about who and what is causing the abuse, the better the chance we have of tackling it and making a difference.


This is true, butler; we need to look at it and understand it etc etc... I think people that abuse their kids or spouse need to realise they have that problem; yet most don't and so the abuse continues. Women that are abused to need to realise as Survivor did, to just leave the prick asap, don't hang around for the kids sake and endure that shit, either pack up and split or kick his ass to the curb.

In like manner, when the shoe is on the other foot; women to can be abusive too and for a man he maybe so in love or hes never had it so great in the sack, he'll endure the put downs, finical strain and the mind games etc etc, the answer is "kick the ass to the curb" and find someone new.

 
At 26/10/07 7:54 am, Anonymous survivor said...

Butter,

You say you don't want to generalise, yet you bring up a handful of cases to put the onus back on woman.

I am not shutting down debate, but the problem of abuse is predominantly man on woman.

It appears you as a man don't want to '"own" the problem, which is precisely why abuse continues.

Yes woman abuse children, and men, but men abusing children, and woman, would be higher.

 
At 26/10/07 8:41 am, Anonymous Butter said...

You say you don't want to generalise, yet you bring up a handful of cases to put the onus back on woman.

I am using examples, just as you did with your own, to illustrate my point. You made a blanket statement that "the abuse is being meted out to the woman as well." I used the example to show that this isn't always the case so I don't see how this is a generalisation. I'm also unsure why you think I'm putting the onus on women as I have simply said that you can't say this is a "male-only" problem which you seemed to do when you said that the spotlight deserves to be on men and in doing so you are shutting down the debate by implying we can't look at women's role in the abuse.

It appears you as a man don't want to '"own" the problem, which is precisely why abuse continues.

I'm a little insulted by this, you seem to be saying that because I don't aghree with you that this is a man problem that I am personally responsible for the abuse of children continuing?
I do not, nor have I ever abused anyone, I am however very interested in solving the problem of abuse and I am saying that we cannot do so by ignoring factors that lead to the abuse. Hence the questions I asked in my first post.

Maybe you should read the first part of my first post again, I think I have asked some interesting questions about the types of homes that abused children come from and why these might play a large part in the cause of abuse.

Yes woman abuse children, and men, but men abusing children, and woman, would be higher I see you agree that women can be abusers to, why then do you expect only men to "own" the problem? Abuse appears to be more prevalent among Maori but it would be outrageous to suggest that child abuse is a 'Maori problem' and ignore child abuse by non Maori, so I think it would be equally outrageous to suggest that abuse is a male only problem.

 
At 26/10/07 9:48 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Survivor

I am a male, and have been abused by both males and females in my life, physically, mentally, and sexually. Just as an aside, it's interesting to note that virtually identical behaviors from both would not have seen the women in my life charged with an offense. In fact, when beaten by a woman, I was informed that I "could have defended myself better". Interesting, really.

Anyway, even if the males were the only ones in society dishing out the abuse (itself, a problematic point), making it a "male problem" to "own" would be exactly the way to push it to one corner and make sure that social institutions don't change, and that we don't intervene. It's the same that doesn't allow me to ever be a victim, and has made it really hard for me to ever seek assistance to rebuild my life. That's why I'm so passionate about trying to assist with others.

What is reported and acknowledged as abusive or violent behavior is extremely narrow at present. The very fact that some many behaviors which we would now consider abusive could not until recently be reported at all shows that we have changed, but not enough.

There are many behaviors that many people are involved in which are not classified as "abuse", but which are building sickness into our societies. And that has to stop.

 
At 26/10/07 1:33 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"In fact, when beaten by a woman, I was informed that I "could have defended myself better"."


Dude WTF?
You should be ashamed to call yourself a man.

Maybe you take some martial arts classes or boxing.

 
At 26/10/07 3:11 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seriously dudes, do you think the same amount of men are raped as woman?
Do you seriously think the same amount of men are killed by their partners as women?
The examples butter used were men and women abusing and killing children, not just women.
When it comes to the rape and murder of women, somehow I don't think there are two sides nor do I think we havew to apportion blame, that belongs squarely on the man.
But pretend women are as abusive and do as much physical damage as men, if that makes you feel less responsible.

The post above mine somes up most mens opinions.

 
At 26/10/07 3:21 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You put a new spin on the phrase
"I'll beat you like a women"

 
At 26/10/07 3:39 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Read the actual detail of my comment, both of you prior to last comment.

In the latter case - this has been set up by others as an adversarial discussion. I'm not playing the flip side, simply pointing out that thinking about it adversarially is going to result in very short-sighted thinking, and ignores the heart of the problem in favor of making it about blame.

Having said that, you might want to consider that (for example), male-on-male physical and sexual violence is grossly under reported; and also, that recent research on violence has shown that 1. the "gap" in reported violence carried out by sexes is shrinking and 2. reported violence, especially with a weapon, may not be as one sided as you portray it to be - in fact, a US study found a remarkable amount of co-dependent abusing, which speaks pretty well to an ingrained culture of violence.

These are current debates that are taking place in the sector, and are obviously very charged - but it's a complicated issue. I'm not bringing them up simply to say that violence is carried out equally, so much as to suggest that emerging research makes it very clear that the problem is more complex than has been thought.

All of this leaves aside crucially, that what I laid out is that EVEN IF all the violence was carried out by males, which I don't accept, it would still NOT be solved by the
approach being taken, which is typically glib and sloganeering.

By the way, previous poster: get yourself raped and subjected to violence on a sustained basis from when you are a child, and then try and survive it with a psyche intact, and without inflicting that violence on a subsequent generation, go and get hurt repeatedly by someone you care about and because of your history you do not want to truly hurt back, even though and perhaps especially because you finally realise that they are a really damaged individual (it's not about doing "martial arts classes", for crying out loud), then tell me about what it's like to be a man. Yes, I do call myself a man. A lot of other people do, too. Try and think outside of the way you see the world.

 
At 26/10/07 4:14 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Um dude you may have noticed that this is not an encounter or therapy group.

If you have noticed then why the fuck are you behaving like it should be one. If you father raped you when you were a child then go and seek some professional help, don't spilling your guts on an interweb forum.

PS for you own self esteem don't let a women beat you again.

 
At 26/10/07 4:35 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hated By Most is that you?


Didn't you say something about being placed in kiddie fucking homes when your mother was ill in a earlier thread

 
At 26/10/07 9:56 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

No it was me that said nothing in this tread and yes I was place in Kidd fucking family homes by Social Welfare

Hated by Most

 
At 27/10/07 1:36 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well at least you wern't beaten by a women.

 
At 29/10/07 9:40 am, Anonymous butter said...

Anonymous - 26/10/07 3:11 PM
do you think the same amount of men are raped as woman?
Do you seriously think the same amount of men are killed by their partners as women?


Where has anybody said anything to the contrary here? No one has said that men are raped more than women or that more men are killed by their partners than women - who are you arguing with here?

The examples butter used were men and women abusing and killing children, not just women.


Riiiiiight, if you choose to completely ignore the the following : "Hinewaoriki (Lilly-bing) Karatiana-Matiana died from cerebral swelling after being shaken. She had bruising and lacerations to her genitals. She died in her cot on her second birthday while her mother was out partying. Two aunts who had been 'caring' for her were jailed."
I have already posted that twice, I can't help it if you wilfully ignore the evidence that doesn't support you theory.

And I find it odd that you seem to think that it is somehow different if a woman abuses and kills a child if there is also a man involved than if it were a women only. As Mana said:"abuse on any level is fucking stupid regardless on who does it.."

When it comes to the rape and murder of women, somehow I don't think there are two sides nor do I think we havew to apportion blame, that belongs squarely on the man. Perhaps you didn't read Bombers post OR the article it linked to or any of the posts before yours in this thread, but the issue being discussed is the abuse of children, not the rape and murder of women.

But pretend women are as abusive and do as much physical damage as men, if that makes you feel less responsible.
Hey, derail the thread and argue with yourself if it makes you feel better about child abuse.

"The post above mine somes up most mens opinions.
If responding to trolls makes you feel better about your lack of an actual argument for what is being discussed, well, that's just plan sad.

 
At 30/10/07 11:17 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4255424a11.html

Why don't you tell us all again how this is a male problem Bomber?

 

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