Hey Winston, THIS is apartheid
Alt Tv/Fleet FM Breakfast News Comment
Israel cuts fuel supply to Gaza
Israel has begun cutting vital fuel shipments to the Gaza strip, following through on a threat to step up pressure on the militant Palestinian group Hamas. The move has been strongly condemned by Palestinians in Gaza, who rely on Israel for almost all its fuel and gasoline and more than half of its electricity. The Israeli government earlier declared Gaza a "hostile entity" and approved the plan for the cuts, as a response to almost daily rocket attacks by militants in Gaza. Hmmm – group punishment, always the favourite weapon of choice by oppressive regimes, the suffering Israel intends to wreck upon the Palestinian people isn’t unusual or surprising, personally I love how it’s only democracy when a party Israel and America support wins, but when it isn’t, it’s a terrorist organization.
posted by Bomber @ 6:55 am
17 comments
17 Comments:
Hang on a minute, Israel is nice:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2814787614062628295&q=not%20so%20nice%20facts&total=532&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Israel's World Cup team practising.
http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007/10/anti-zionist-jews-brutally-beaten-by.html
KEY SPEAKERS AT THE WANK-FEST;KNOWLEDGEWAVE.ORG.NZ 2003
JOHN HOOD'S OPENING AND CONCLUDING REMARKS
AFTER MORE THAN HALFWAY TO OUR GOAL OF IMPROVING OUR RANK IN THE OECD BY 2010 WHERE ARE WE NOW?
GETTING LOWER DOWN THE SCALE
WHERE IS THE FOLLOW UP THEY PROMISED TO THIS CONFERENCE BRANDED AS THE WAY TO THE FUTURE AT THE SAME TIME AS THE UNIVERSITY OF AUCKLAND WAS NUMBER 1 IN THE PERFORMANCE BASED RESEARCH FUND RANKINGS AS THE TOP UNIVERSITY IN THE COUNTRY OR WAS THIS JUST A MARKETING PLOY AT THE TIME TO HAVE "MORE POWER THAN WELLINGTON" IN THE ROOM...HELEN CLARK...JOHN TAMIHERE ON WELFARE DEPENDENCY...JOHN KEY BEFORE HE WAS LEADER AND OTHER ASSORTED PRICKS LIKE
KEVIN ROBERTS ADVERTISING GURU AND SHIPLEYS DINNER GUEST
BRIAN PEACE SOFTWARE GUY BY INTERNATIONAL HOUSE
ETC ETC ETC...
Tony Blair is Shocked
"It’s been widely reported this week that Tony Blair was thoroughly shocked when he learned the full truth about the enormous numbers of barriers, obstacles and settlements that the Israeli government has constructed within the West Bank during its 40 years of occupation.
We had already heard about his reaction to the UN briefing he was given when he took up his new job as Middle East peace envoy. He came to Hebron for another briefing last week - we caught a glimpse of him arriving at the municipal office - and we were told afterwards that he was shocked all over again by the dire situation here."
http://www.stmgrts.org.uk/archives/2007/10/tony_blair_is_shocked_and_so_are_we.html
Group punishment? What would you call, oh, I don't know, how about: raining rockets on civilian targets in Israel?
If you're going to complain about Israel imposing sanctions on Palestine, how about complaining about the Palestinians intentionally killing Israeli civilians?
“how about complaining about the Palestinians intentionally killing Israeli civilians”
No. Because of statistics like this which illustrate the true nature of the conflict:
0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000
1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 10,756 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel
118 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 952 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000
1,024 Israelis and at least 4,274 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000
When one considers that all of this killing takes place in territory illegally occupied by the force that is doing most of the killing, the retaliation by way of home-made rockets becomes understandable, if not heroic. Would we condemn those partisans who, should the Japanese have occupied Australia or New Zealand in 1942, resisted that occupation wherever and whenever possible?
brewerstroupe, thank you for making my point.
Even if your cherry-picked statistics and claims were correct, they still don't excuse the fact that the Palestinians are doing exactly what the OP was criticising Israel for doing: group punishment.
They are killing Israeli civilians, supposedly in retaliation for what some other Israelis did.
Unless perhaps you think they really believe that the day-care centre they bombarded contained Mossad agents in disguise?
“Even if your cherry-picked statistics and claims were correct”
You know they are or you would have posted evidence to disprove them.
“the day-care centre they bombarded”
Nice try at a bit of spin. Qassam rockets are a crude device with no aiming capability. Reading your post the soft-brained might be lead to believe that the nasty Pals were deliberately targeting children. Yet even the Zionist press reports:
“Palestinian rocket hits near Israeli day care center, Olmert threatens to hit back “
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/09/04/news/nation/16_37_469_3_07.txt
The operative word is “near”. No children were hurt. But consider the Israeli response:
“The Israeli government yesterday said it would consider assassinating the Palestinian prime minister as the town of Sderot emptied following the first death from a Qassam rocket in six months.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,2085946,00.html
The first death from a rocket in six months!
Wanna know how many pals have died, victims of weapons equipped with the most sophisticated aiming devices currently provided by the U.S. during the past six months? How do you feel about a State that openly speaks about assassinating the leader of a neighbouring state because of the actions of a few of it’s citizens?
Still looking for the statistics for the past six months but here's the last weeks harvest:
7 Palestinians, including 2 children, were killed by IOF.
3 of the victims, including a civilian, were extra-judicially executed by IOF.
A Palestinian worker was run down to death by an Israeli settler.
16 Palestinians, including 3 children, a woman and a journalist, were wounded by IOF.
IOF conducted 27 incursions into Palestinian communities in the West Bank and 3 ones into the Gaza Strip.
IOF arrested 37 Palestinian civilians, including 4 children, in the West Bank and 4 others in the Gaza Strip.
IOF razed at least 150 donums[1] of agricultural land Beit Hanoun town in the northern Gaza Strip.
IOF have continued to impose a total siege on the OPT.
IOF have isolated the Gaza Strip from the outside world and a humanitarian crisis has emerged.
A patient died due to the obstruction by IOF troops at Erez crossing of his access to an Israeli hospital.
http://www.pchrgaza.org/files/W_report/English/2007/25-10-2007.htm
NEW YORK, (PIC)-- Jean Ziegler, the UN special rapporteur on right to food, castigated the Israeli occupation and described it as the only "colonial regime" which refuses to abide by any international law, calling on the UN to adopt an effective policy forcing Israel to respect human rights and the Geneva Convention.
"The Israeli occupation is a colonial regime and an illegal military occupation from the UN's point of view, it continues to annex more Palestinian lands; and thus the Israeli occupation is the worst in the history of colonialism," Ziegler stated in a TV interview.
The UN official underlined that the Israeli occupation is causing starvation, physical and psychological oppression to the Palestinian people, but he noted that there is Palestinian resistance, questioning the reason behind the EU's complicity with the Israeli occupation and why US funds are protecting this occupation.
http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/en/default.aspx?xyz=U6Qq7k%2bcOd87MDI46m9rUxJEpMO%2bi1s7leKnnQwmY9duRHZ09yVBqV%2fphl5aopldmusl%2bua7P5TW300dIVvWcHJnTWasRg3bcbYdgKJrCu1eyPsUMRVnl%2fX56Xpaqlv37tbMzwshG3w%3d
How do you feel about a State that openly speaks about assassinating the leader of a neighbouring state because of the actions of a few of it’s citizens?
You mean the terrorist organisation that was elected to lead Palestine by the majority of Palestinians?
Duncan Bayne
Let me see if I have this right. Hamas was elected in U.N. supervised elections which should make it the democratically elected party of government but it continues to resist the occupation therefore it is a terrorist organisation?
I think we need to define "terrorist organisation". This becomes a little difficult if we are rigorous as all definitions I have seen seem to apply equally to all parties to resistance such as the French Underground and even parties to conquest such as the Irgun, Haganah and, in particular, the Stern Gang.
It seems to me that any definition depends on whether or not one's sympathies are with it or against it.
Are you aware that Israel dispersed nearly a million Palestinians in a planned campaign of terror beginning in 1947 and has contined that campaign up until the present day. Given this fact which is verified by a host of historians, many of them Israeli, the Israeli government is also deserving of the "terrorist" label.
Can you explain why the U.N. does not support your view?
Perhaps you are also unaware that Hamas was created by Israel in a classic "divide and conquer" strategy that blew back somewhat unfortunately for Israel when it became more popular and less malleable than the PLO which it was designed to weaken.
I suggest, if you are as serious about this subject as you appear to be about old gramophones, that you spend a few hours studying the history of this conflict as it has now been verified by such Israeli historians as Ilan Pappe, Benny Morris, Israel Shahak and many others.
An overview may be had here:
http://www.bidstrup.com/zionism.htm
...which is supported by Professor Ilan Pappe's book which is reviewed here:
http://www.countercurrents.org/pa-lendman090207.htm
Some essays from Cornell University's site are instructive on the current situation:
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/hhh3/israel.html
These represent a very brief introduction to the problem. I would appreciate your comments, once you have read them. We may then discuss their veracity.
brewerstroupe,
It seems to me that any definition depends on whether or not one's sympathies are with it or against it.
Okay, then: what's your definition of a terrorist organisation? Does Hamas fit that definition? The Government of Israel? Both?
And you still haven't addressed my original point: that if Israel is guilty of 'group punishment' by imposing sanctions on Palestine for failing to curtail Hamas, then so is Hamas, for targeting Israeli civilians in attacks that are a response to Israeli military activity.
Duncan,
Targeting civilians is not acceptable, Israeli or Palestinian.
However, context shows us that the Palestinians in Gaza lead a miserable existence. For example they have water shortages imposed on them directly by Israel; Gazans are going thirsty whilst the Israeli citizens fill their swimming pools and water their lawns.
This is the type of injustice that drives them to extremism. To launch crappy homemade rockets at anything Israeli.
Now, more context. From a Palestinians perspective, these Israeli citizens are the ones who took their home from them. These Israeli citizens are the same ones that live in illegal settlements in West Bank.
It's a tit-for-tat situation.
Who do you expect to act rationally? The hungry, thirsty man living in rubble whose life has been crushed? Or the man fat man sipping a cool beer poolside?
You want me to acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist organisation, albeit with impotent firepower?
Ok. Fine no problem. As long as you acknowledge that Israel is a terrorist State with brutal firepower that it uses to ensure no peace ever arrives; at least not until it has conquered all.
Duncan, I also think it would be prudent to check out some of the material Brewer linked to. That is ofcourse if you want to learn some truth about the subject, not just mainstream doublespeak.
"Okay, then: what's your definition of a terrorist organisation? Does Hamas fit that definition? The Government of Israel? Both?"
I think you are making a category mistake.
In the first place, very few entities can be “terror organizations. Terror is a tactic or weapon used in warfare, like, say, propaganda yet we do not generally refer to armies as “terror organizations” or “propaganda” organizations”. Consider the “shock and awe” maneuvre that opened the Iraq War. The very name was calculated to create terror, let alone the minimum 45,000 civilian casualties it caused. Should we now refer to the Government of the United States as a “terror organization”?
The situation in Palestine is such that terror is inflicted by both sides. The IDF uses sophisticated weaponry to kill and maim Palestinian civilians, factions within the occupied territories fire rockets – both (supposedly) in the mistaken belief that it will somehow cause the opposite party to change their minds. Therefore the term becomes meaningless – either both are terrorists or neither. What we are left with is the question of morality or, which is the just cause.
What is going on is asymmetric warfare. The Israelis want the Palestinians gone but they cannot just grind them under tanks or they would lose their support in the U.S. So they blast a few houses, shoot a few Palestinians to scatter the populace then move in a few settlers. The Pals want to scare the settlers off so they fire rockets. Everyone is happy. The Israelis get to sell the Pals to the world under the terrorist brand-name (made so popular by Bush) the Pals slow up the settlement process. (If you have ever wondered why 400,000 Israelis would go and settle where an occasional rocket might spoil the day, check out the inducements: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CEED9103EF937A35750C0A966958260
....it’s an old article but so is the strategy. The inducements are greater now than ever.)
From the Palestinian point of view, the settlers are the enemy. They are, after all, knowingly moving into and taking over Palestinian land. They are not innocent passersby. Consider how you would react if Australia was still occupied 60 years after a Japanese victory and the Japanese army was clearing Australians from their homes, bulldozing them and financially assisting Japanese into homes built on the land. Most Australians would see those Japanese settlers as complicit I think.
The Israeli aim is to expel Palestinians from ancestral lands so if they have an enemy, it is one they themselves have created. When they take aim and fire at a civilian home, that civilian may indeed be innocent of any act of war.
For this reason I believe the Palestinian cause correctly merits the term “just”.
As it happens, the U.N agrees.
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. In this conflict Israel fights for territory, the Palestinians for freedom from oppression on what remains of their land. If you study the history you will see that they are currently trying to hold on to the last 20% of the land that was their own until half of it was given to Zionists by the victors of WW2. It is not often understood that, even if the Israelis retreated to the pre-1967 borders, the Palestinians would still have given up over half their rightful homeland. Most Pals accept this. The current desperate fight is to resist Israel's attempt to take it all and expel the entire Palestinian population.
I think this also addresses your original point.
This weeks harvest:
The Gaza-based Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR) has released its weekly report on Israeli human rights violations in the West Bank and Gaza for the week of October 25th – 31st, 2007. During the week, Israeli forces killed 15 Palestinians, including a disabled civilian.
According to the report, Israeli forces injured 29 Palestinians, including 9 children, 2 women, an old man, a journalist and a human rights worker. The injuries and deaths occurred mainly during 49 separate incursions by Israeli forces into civilian areas in the West Bank and Gaza. 79 Palestinians were abducted by Israeli forces this week, including 6 children and 2 women.
In addition, Israeli forces razed an entire village near Hebron, forcing the inhabitants to scramble to the other side of the Wall and remain there, homeless and disconnected from their community. Israeli forces also razed 32 dunums of land in the Gaza Strip.
http://www.imemc.org/article/51247
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