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Friday, September 28, 2007

Cops and Hammers


Alt Tv/Fleet FM Breakfast News Comment
Cops and Hammers
So we have different versions of events, one kid says the guy was charging, two others say he wasn’t – the cops are investigating cops in a secret none transparent system, and the Police Association has their cheerleaders out demanding the Public support the cops – really Greg, you demand the public support our cops? You’ve picked the wrong year to demand loyalty bub, and the way the Police have managed to twist this into a reason why cops need tasers, and go as far as to point the finger at ‘comfortable people in Auckland’ who have opposed cops getting tasers is astonishing for it’s shallowness. Why would we allow the cops more weapons when there isn’t an independent system in place to protect our rights if the cops over step their powers.

One also has to look at the culture in these insular little worlds – 24 hours earlier staff in this Police area were e-mailing out a group emails showing a man knifed and the words, “If you have a knife you deserved to be shot” – 24 hours later a cop shoots someone with a hammer who may or may not have been advancing on him. One also has to ask why not a baton, pepper spray or calling in dogs? Of course at the end of the day, I wasn’t the guy being advanced on, if it was me, I’d probably freak out a little and pull a trigger too, but there’s a difference between me and a cop – I’M NOT A COP, I haven’t been trained or taught what to do, how to handle stressful and violent situations, the cops have – or have they? My biggest problem with cops has always been the pitiful amount of time it takes to be a cop 19 weeks IS NOT an appropriate amount of time to be trained as a cop, and one has to wonder if that had some part to play in this tragedy. We do expect more from our cops, we don’t want to live in a country where people get shot for smashing up cars for crying out loud.

19 Comments:

At 28/9/07 9:13 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

simple solution: Don't break the law in the 1st place. Seems easy enough doesn't it?

Oh no, I forgot, nobody can be responsible for their own actions, blame someone else for your problems, its alot easier!

 
At 28/9/07 10:04 am, Anonymous On Target said...

Who cares really, some methed up loser, sorry on 'party pills' that 'kept him awake for 4 days' lol. One less crim to wrorry about. As an aside its a shame Richard Duthie wasn't shot dead this morning also.

 
At 28/9/07 11:05 am, Blogger dad4justice said...

A five year old asks a blue gun thug "Why did you shoot my friend?"

The tough guy thug replies " Us cops don't get paid enough to go home in a box."

Police culture is beyond repair !

 
At 28/9/07 11:26 am, Anonymous mike laws said...

Check out the one witness who claims the man was not attacking the cop:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4217339a10.html

Who is going to trust that guy? He is obviously a criminal himself. Look at the glove tats, and his 'gangstered up' kids.

 
At 28/9/07 12:09 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"So we have different versions of events, one kid says the guy was charging, two others say he wasn’t"

Those are just the ones the media has managed to find willing to go on camera. One of the 'anti' police version of event witnesses even claims that the guy was shot 8 times each time his body jerking just like in the movies.

"the Police Association has their cheerleaders out demanding the Public support the cops – really Greg, you demand the public support our cops? You’ve picked the wrong year to demand loyalty bub"

What where is Greg O'Connor demanding the public support the police unconditionally? Can you post the link. I saw that when the press asked him for a statement he said at this stage he supported the officer, as you might expect the head of the Police union to do, it is kinda his job.

"and the way the Police have managed to twist this into a reason why cops need tasers, and go as far as to point the finger at ‘comfortable people in Auckland’ who have opposed cops getting tasers is astonishing for it’s shallowness"

Err its actually the media and politicians who brought that into the debate and who keep going on about it. The Police spokesperson certainly didn't bring it into the equation even when the media tried to force her into it, so again where are you getting your facts from?

And Police union bringing it up when questioned by the media certainly wouldn't indicate any shallowness on their behalf, its a perfectly valid point. The same people who are first to condemn Police when they are forced to shoot an offender aka the Keith Lockes and Bombers of this world, were also amongst those who most vocally opposed the Police being provided with a non-lethal means of avoiding such a shooting. Pointing out the hypocrisy of your position Bomber is by no means shallow.

"One also has to look at the culture in these insular little worlds – 24 hours earlier staff in this Police area were e-mailing out a group emails showing a man knifed and the words, “If you have a knife you deserved to be shot” – 24"

And yet again you either haven't bothered to research your facts or take something completely out of context. It was a chain email sent across Police departments across the world with a picture of an officer who received severe lacerations as a result of not wearing a stab resistant vest. The orginator of the email had attached some text in typical gunho american style. The New Zealand cops were however circulating it with a warning as to why Police should always wear their vests.

". One also has to ask why not a baton, pepper spray or calling in dogs?"

Because the officer at the time feared for his life and he believed in the circumstances that presented that he had no other option. Batons and Pepper Spray are useless against a highly motivated drugged offender and Police dogs if available take time to get to the scene. With the guy charging at the officer with a hammer raised above his head yelling at him he was going to kill him aside from sacrificing his own life what would you rather he did?

"We do expect more from our cops, we don’t want to live in a country where people get shot for smashing up cars for crying out loud."

Again your completely twisting the facts, he did not get shot for smashing up a car. He got shot because he charged at an armed Police officer while wielding a weapon with the intent of killing the officer. That is why he got shot, the smashing up of cars and the domestic incident were simply the reason why the Police approached the male in the first place.

Its just so ironic and pathetic you trying to take this moral high ground saying you expect more from the Police when its people like you who are opposing giving them the means by which such scenarios can be prevented.

 
At 28/9/07 12:49 pm, Anonymous nznative said...

sounds like a long winded defence of the police by someone who knows exactly the same amount of detail as those attacking the police.

... and make no mistake greg oCONner cant open his mouth without a whole lot of bullshit falling out.

The guy was an ex-undercover and lieing and dishonesty are natural to the creep.

About the only thing you'll hear oCONner say is more ................ more police, more powers, more weapons..... more more more

He should just piss off and become a natianal mp as is in his blood

 
At 28/9/07 1:07 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you can't contribute anything useful why don't you take your police r bad and r liars and nationals sux juvenile squeaking to one of the other 999 threads you've spewed the same tired old crap in.

 
At 28/9/07 1:42 pm, Anonymous nznative said...

999? ................. dont you mean 111

 
At 28/9/07 2:40 pm, Blogger Bomber said...

...
"So we have different versions of events, one kid says the guy was charging, two others say he wasn’t"

Those are just the ones the media has managed to find willing to go on camera. One of the 'anti' police version of event witnesses even claims that the guy was shot 8 times each time his body jerking just like in the movies.

Agreed, there are different versions of events, the pro Police kid also had his sister killed in a recent event where the Police helped with a sucessful prosecution, but you don't mention that, only the 8 shot jerker.

"the Police Association has their cheerleaders out demanding the Public support the cops – really Greg, you demand the public support our cops? You’ve picked the wrong year to demand loyalty bub"

What where is Greg O'Connor demanding the public support the police unconditionally? Can you post the link. I saw that when the press asked him for a statement he said at this stage he supported the officer, as you might expect the head of the Police union to do, it is kinda his job.

His 'you're either with us or you're against us' mentality you mean?? I hope for more than bloody minded support of someone being shot for smashing cars, and it hasn't been the best year to ask for loyalty has it Anon? Did you watch Breakfast TV with Paul Henry this morning? Greg very clearly was taking the position, check it out TVNZ ON DEMAND.

"and the way the Police have managed to twist this into a reason why cops need tasers, and go as far as to point the finger at ‘comfortable people in Auckland’ who have opposed cops getting tasers is astonishing for it’s shallowness"

Err its actually the media and politicians who brought that into the debate and who keep going on about it. The Police spokesperson certainly didn't bring it into the equation even when the media tried to force her into it, so again where are you getting your facts from?

Um, watching the news, the Police HAVE said that if they had a taser, Greg WAS saying this - I think the one being selective is you.

And Police union bringing it up when questioned by the media certainly wouldn't indicate any shallowness on their behalf, its a perfectly valid point. The same people who are first to condemn Police when they are forced to shoot an offender aka the Keith Lockes and Bombers of this world, were also amongst those who most vocally opposed the Police being provided with a non-lethal means of avoiding such a shooting. Pointing out the hypocrisy of your position Bomber is by no means shallow.
NO NO NO - you hear what you want, I have been VERY clear I don't mind them have lightsabres if that will make their job easier - I SIMPLY ASK FOR A SYSTEM THAT CAN BE OPEN AND TRANSPERANT - what part of this do you not seem to understand?

"One also has to look at the culture in these insular little worlds – 24 hours earlier staff in this Police area were e-mailing out a group emails showing a man knifed and the words, “If you have a knife you deserved to be shot” – 24"

And yet again you either haven't bothered to research your facts or take something completely out of context. It was a chain email sent across Police departments across the world with a picture of an officer who received severe lacerations as a result of not wearing a stab resistant vest. The orginator of the email had attached some text in typical gunho american style. The New Zealand cops were however circulating it with a warning as to why Police should always wear their vests.

I knew it was from America, I knew it was written by a gung ho cop - what I'm saying is that it gives you an in-sight into their siege mentality. Seeing as you chose to ignore my other points I'm not surprised you're thrashing around wildly with this one.

". One also has to ask why not a baton, pepper spray or calling in dogs?"

Because the officer at the time feared for his life and he believed in the circumstances that presented that he had no other option. Batons and Pepper Spray are useless against a highly motivated drugged offender and Police dogs if available take time to get to the scene. With the guy charging at the officer with a hammer raised above his head yelling at him he was going to kill him aside from sacrificing his own life what would you rather he did?

Like I said, I'm not a trained cop - I'm hoping that we train cops better - 19 weeks ain't cuttin the mustard, but you just seem to want to support cops regardless. I'm not so trusting.

"We do expect more from our cops, we don’t want to live in a country where people get shot for smashing up cars for crying out loud."

Again your completely twisting the facts, he did not get shot for smashing up a car. He got shot because he charged at an armed Police officer while wielding a weapon with the intent of killing the officer. That is why he got shot, the smashing up of cars and the domestic incident were simply the reason why the Police approached the male in the first place.

This was property damage that suddenly became a violent episode, what did the cop do before hand, did they talk him down, did they take a baton and pepper spray to the scene? Did they simply take a gun, forcing a confrontation that led to the death of a person - these are questions anyone should have of our Police Force.

Its just so ironic and pathetic you trying to take this moral high ground saying you expect more from the Police when its people like you who are opposing giving them the means by which such scenarios can be prevented.
And now its my fault for daring to criticise the Police - brilliant

 
At 28/9/07 3:06 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who cares if the guy got shot he's dead and do you really think for one moment that the cops are just going to blow someone away for taking to a car with a hammer, silly people do you listen to everying you hear on t.v.

With all the news about the cops are people not looking for more "HOT TOPICS" you are all just following the crowd like sheep.

Think about things don't let others do the thinking for you.

 
At 28/9/07 5:46 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

where was the police dogs? was it a cold night and they didn't want to bring them out?

What about pepper spray and 6 big cops move in for the take down... or do they only do that when your already in custody?

What happen to Hand to Hand combat, one man one hammer... 3 or 4 cops with batons and pepper-spray.. or do they only do that when your handcuffed?

How about just shooting him in the legs, would think and insane man with a hammer, crawling wouldn't post much of a threat... but he'd be alive.

Hated By Most

 
At 28/9/07 5:47 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"About the only thing you'll hear oCONner say is more ................ more police, more powers, more weapons..... more more more"

Isn't that his job?

 
At 28/9/07 7:21 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Heh!, but they were able to arrest Duthie, who was armed with a handgun, without having to shoot him, arseholes!.

 
At 28/9/07 11:25 pm, Blogger Big_Trev said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 29/9/07 5:39 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

you answered the shit you said yourself Trev you dumb ass, as you were trying run it down, here your comment: They can only use the tools that POLITICIANS put in their hands.

so why didn't they, police Dogs, batons, pepper spray & hand to hand combat.... how about a combination of 2 or 3 of the above.

CF

 
At 29/9/07 11:04 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look at the practicalities of the situation. Police know that Duthie is a heavily armed crazed P-head so they are totally prepared to deal with him which enables them to take him down with little violence.

On the other hand police were responding to a routine callout and it appears within moments of getting out of the squad car had someone charges the officer with a hammer.

 
At 29/9/07 3:47 pm, Anonymous nznative said...

domestics are often violent hostile situations where the police may be dealing with unreasonable people who have 'lost it'.

A domestic is potentialy one of the most dangerous enviroment/events a police officer will have to deal with.

routine is serving a summons or taking someones licence

 
At 1/10/07 6:55 pm, Anonymous judge dredd said...

White trash P-Heads (oh, sorry, 'party pill' heads), wannabe Poly gangsters, 'Once Were Warriors' maori, and other losers look out! Summary execution for scum.

 
At 1/10/07 10:50 pm, Anonymous nznative said...

some little chinless hooray henrey posted their little 'wet dream' about executions.

........ hope their not a policeman ;-)

 

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