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Thursday, June 28, 2007

Time to listen to gangs


Alt Tv/Fleet FM Breakfast News
Time to listen to gangs
Maori Party co-leader Tariana Turia says New Zealand has got itself into a "moral panic" over gang culture and should start listening to the gangs' own ideas for change rather than focusing on social control of them. The moral panic created a perception that the gangs were "completely out of control", said Mrs Turia, who is based in Wanganui where gang conflict has plagued the city and resulted in the fatal shooting of toddler Jhia Harmony Te Tua. She said the gangs had been singled out for censure and the debate over them had been a key distraction from "rocketing interest rates, bureaucratic bumbling or insider trading". "All that such tactics do is to [provoke] more resentment and rage from those who already feel positioned on the outskirts of society," she said in Parliament yesterday.The idea that we should deal with the most ostracized and alienated members of society with even harsher laws rather than understanding the reasons why people join gangs is a Neanderthal talkback kneejerk response, but in NZ we do Neanderthal talkback kneejerk responses better than anyone.

23 Comments:

At 28/6/07 8:33 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This thing (Turia)has lost the plot. To listen to gangs is just as bad as letting Police take fingerprints for just stopping you on the motorway for speeding. Police state no Just Comrade Helen and this thing Turia putting their mouth where there A hole is.

 
At 28/6/07 8:49 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

More diaorhea from Turia

 
At 28/6/07 11:11 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regardless of the reasons for people joining gangs, they are scary, dangerous, violent, usually drug pushers, money launderers, child abusers, rapists, murderers ... Give me an example of where they make a positive input to society.

Are these the people we want to be protecting? I think not. Let's think about the victims in this instance huh!?

There are plenty of people in this country on benefits who actually need the help of government and society - gang members don't belong in that category.

NS

 
At 28/6/07 11:16 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whats makes Turia think gangs want to change themselves...and have ideas to do so?!

 
At 28/6/07 3:38 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
This thing (Turia)has lost the plot. To listen to gangs show us how it would hurt, to try this method anon, it worked in th 80's under National with the Black Power, from the talks came a housing project with the govt and black power that took crime off the streets in Otahuhu, changed things for lots of young people. houses are still in Otahuhu today.

Anonymous said...
More diaorhea from Turia
narrow minded anon, she trying to find ways that will work so you can feel safer in your bed at nite, so then you only have to worry about your mortage.. and thats diaorhea? write her and tell her... so she can realise you not worth the effort and might do nothing.. then these crims can carry on, maybe you could be next victum who knows?

Anonymous said...
Regardless of the reasons for people joining gangs, they are scary, dangerous, violent, usually drug pushers, money launderers, child abusers, rapists, murderers ... Give me an example of where they make a positive input to society.
NS
How many gang members you know NS... postive example is what was done with the work schemes throughout the country, that pull thousand of youth off the streets, off glue and gave them skills.. it worked because gang members could reach the kids the youth workers couldn't, because of experience, walk the walk not talking the talk yet dont know shit. Never experienced our life so how can they relate to us about it? BUT one thing dude, the highlighted child abuse tie to gangs is very near, childern are a touchie topic amongst crims, we don't hold any favors for clowns that come into court or Jail with child abuse charges, you will be likey if you dont leave in a bodybag, on the tender side you may get a few extra holes to breath out of... you should gather the info correctly... most gang members with not tolerate this offence. I am one of them...

Anonymous said...
Whats makes Turia think gangs want to change themselves...and have ideas to do so?! I believe Tauria has already had talks with the Black power & Mob yet dont quote me on it... i heard this 3 months ago.. Gangmember leaders talk Anon it is how the peace is kept, any in house fuck ups get dealt with easily.... it has been i prospect of the Black Power and Mob to change for years, since Muldoon. But the youth still think its about "who own this or that part of town" in the past gangs clashed over this, gang dont want that for the youth... better to keep the peace and make wads of cash. but tell me... i grew up in a abusive family, violence from both sides, saw guns and learnt how to use them before I was 10years old... so how will you solve what I have seen anons..

Hated by Most

 
At 28/6/07 4:48 pm, Anonymous deano said...

More PC rubbish from our politicians.

She complains that 'the gangs have been singled out'? How dare the big bad white media pick on those poor brown gang members.

Just because many gang members are Maori doesn't mean she should feel obliged to stick up for them.

Scum are scum, regardless of colour.

 
At 28/6/07 5:44 pm, Blogger bomber said...

...
Hmmmm - I don't know about that Deano, dude I've talked to gang members in the past, and I've been around some gangs - and from my experience there seem to be two kinds, the first are tribal groups who cling together in family networks more out of a deep desire for community who resort to crime from pure economic need and then career criminals, smart guys who for whatever reason make a rational call to make money as crims, they are intelligent, alpha male types and are dangerous BECAUSE they are smart. My problem with writing them all off as scum is that a) dehumanising people is just a way for the majority to not care and b) I don't think it does anything in our attempts to reach out to the first group and offer better options to them, and for the second group we fool ourselves by thinking they are idiots - they aren't.

Organised crime is a disease, but it is one that is fuelled by poverty - deal to the poverty and you limit organised crime - the mindset that says 'harder penalties, more police powers, longer sentences' does nothing to slow crime. If we are focused on solutions rather than talkback kneejerks we have to look to other ideas, Turia is right and that so many of you are keen to shit on her suggests to me how problematic that mind shift will be.

 
At 29/6/07 2:33 am, Anonymous woppo said...

Let Turia front up with gang members who signal their willingness to talk in good faith - and have her prove this by appearing on the same platform with representatives of Black Power and the Mob, demonstrating the good faith that her influence has brought about between them.

Was Turia anywhere in evidence when Mob members taunted the Black Power-affiliated father of the slain child outside the Wanganui courthouse? No, she's exercising herself over 'rocketing interest rates', FFS.

Sorry bomber, about all Turia 's capable of is sending Pita Sharples into cringe mode whenever she opens her mouth.

 
At 29/6/07 1:48 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well if it isn't ol woppo! Your not jumping to asumptions again there woppo all Turia 's capable of is sending Pita Sharples into cringe mode whenever she opens her mouth. hmmmm I know Pita Sharples pretty well and his thoughts were on the same line concerning gangs chump.

Just want to save you from making and another egg of yourself, "like the "Asia vs. China story" you waffled off on.

it pays to check these things out you know woppy

Hated By Most

 
At 29/6/07 2:15 pm, Anonymous woppo said...

Piss off you brainless cunt.

 
At 29/6/07 2:21 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Black Power and the Mob - what about the Highways, Skin Heads, Nomads, Outlaws ... come on there are hundreds of gangs out there - why pick on just 2? There are motorcycle gangs, city gangs, street gangs, kids, internet gangs running scams - surely some of them must be white too...?

My brother in law was in a gang, killed himself on his bike and left behind two kids. He was a totally cool guy until he was with the crowd at the pad.

Bomber - you're right, if someone can talk to these people and help them to become 'decent' members of society then that would be great. Really, though, what do you think the chances are of that working for the majority of members?

Hated By Most - ok so some gangs have done good work, but you have to admit this is the exception rather than the rule yeah?

NS

 
At 29/6/07 2:52 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hated By Most - ok so some gangs have done good work, but you have to admit this is the exception rather than the rule yeah?There gangs NS what did you expect?

Outlaws, Tribresmen and Mothers fuckers, Road Knights, Templetion, Highway 61's, Big Red Machine etc etc are all MC's (motorcycle clubs) we are not gangs lol, you can fine us listed on the motorcycles assn. Hey its the LAW. that why the banning of patches will be hard to do, because it is club insigna. Again its the LAW if club ensign is included in the banning of patches it will mean all club patches must be removed.

Talks with the black power and mob are because they are mostly at war over area. They also extend into lower street gangs, Acsks, acsd, crippys, bloods etc etc.. Normads are a break off from the Black Power NS formed in 1977 Masterton by Denis Hines...Why? sick of the lack of balls to pay back, wrongs done by other gangs.. theres a lot more to this than meets the eye.. you know what the papers tell you or what you hear on the News... the purpose for that is to get ratings... just like the fight in Whakatane... 3 gang associates had a fight headlines Gang violence erupts in Whakatane...lol

Turia idea is not a dangerous one, better than bottling it.

Hated By Most

 
At 29/6/07 4:42 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I really don't give a shit what the gangs or "motorcycle club" boys do to each other ... I'm more concerned with the women and public who have to put up with their violence and bullshit

NS

 
At 30/6/07 7:30 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And another thing - you're trying to tell me that one of the reasons people are in these gangs is because of poverty.

Hated By Most - you keep bosting about your $10k payout to the cops, $90k bike etc etc etc - so what's your excuse for still being in that gang? Certainly not poverty eh?

That goes for all the gangs who have made money pushing drugs to kids - why not get out now you've got your dirty money and do something useful with it, like make a donation to the women's refuges which are overflowing with women who have been beaten, raped, abused by people just like you.

Going back to my original blog

Are these the people we want to be protecting? I think not. Let's think about the victims in this instance huh!?

There are plenty of people in this country on benefits who actually need the help of government and society - gang members don't belong in that category.

NS

 
At 30/6/07 5:17 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Explain this to me NS, and tell me what the fuck do you know about our world? the shit you see on TV or read in the paper is hyper crap.

Poverty is half the reason why I am where I am, what you think I was rich and just decide to pospect for the Angels NS.. Do you no many rich people that join gangs do you? The other half has to do with how we are treated as maori and as outcasts, outcasts in my tupuna's country, what the fuck did my ancestor do you to you white fuckers for them to be slaughtered the way they were. No way was I letting that happen to me, in my time the Angels where the most dangerous and repected club I have seen, taking shit from no one. I wanted that, I was a cunt hair away from joining the MOB (not the dirty mongrel mob) Maffia. but I love watching the bikes roar through the street. I lived just down the road, I started by running, i learnt to shut the fuck up and do the business without question. I grew balls, obtain thousands on battle scars, i stayed on the frontline, being shot 8 times stabbed 13 times... please come tell me more about the world i have seen & lived in NS.

when i first came on this blog I am happy to give my to 2 cents worth and I for one wanted out.. to change for the sake of my kids... then i meet wankers like deano, TJ and ol buckshot, soild, buckshot AB, now you... you all seem to know all about my world. yet the crap you fuckers come up with is based on what! NS is it experience? doubtfull. which after reading your comments only enforces to me as to WHY i should give a flying fuck...

I to was abused by teachers through primary, college.. I was removed from my family at 12yrs Dad and mother to sick, I didn't want to leave. Never saw my ol man again, I was told 1 yr after he was buried that he died, yet I remember him working his ass to the bone, with cancer and TB to try and feed us. My sister never saw again 12yrs later, I was put with family home up and down the country, abusive happy clappers, church sunday, abuse monday through to saturday. But you seem to know all about me right NS so I'll let you fill in the rest......

I remember everything like yesterday and you think you have the answers for me. Donate to womens refuge you say, its full with women raped and beaten by people just like me, you say?... so you know me huh, so I rape and beat women do I?

As for the Dole, it is another fuckup on your account NS to think that most people like me or others are on the dole.. if I had 10k how can I justify that if I am on the dole... where is your brains.. in your ass.

Hated by Most

 
At 2/7/07 8:43 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

post it bomber NS needs to know....

So you know me now do you NS, your reference to me being a women abuser is an interesting one, I find more satifaction when I corner an ignorant white boy, sometimes I want to hit them so bad, I get wood, like totara... but abusing childern and women aint our cup of tea.. you must be thinking of the Mongrel Mob they do that NS not us, certainly not I.

Bomber has most of it right concerning gangs, poverty is the one the reasons I joined, I saw your comment you left NS, WHAT do you think, when we were born we all have Gold strapped to our legs? hmmmm... Just how many rich people you know run off and join gangs NS. Is that common where you live, if so get them to email us.

The other reason I join has to do with repect, I saw what my ol man and mother endured both maori, I watch my ol man work with Cancer and TB, to try and feed us and got paid 100 dollar less than the pakeha doing the same job, yet my ol man trained him. I saw the hours my ol man worked only to be shitted on by Pakeha, time and time again, I watched as the govt come gunning for there land because of land rates law changes to maoriland and take it from them from them, why they never do anything up there to justify the rates, no water no power, but they took it. I was removed from my parents because they were to sick, not mine or there wish, social fucking welfare. Placed in a Pakeha child molesting family homes, abusive happy clapper homes, oh my life was tip top, Didn't see my ol man again, welfare told me one year after he was buried that he died. So i guess I should of been and up standing member of the community. I was rejected by this community so I went to where all the rejected hang out and was welcomed, I showed my loyality and there i stayed, If I go away my family was taken care of food, bills, any trouble it got taken care of... Now you want us to come back to the community that forced us to be the 1%

NO THANKS

But NS you seem to know more about us than we do. the News and the Papers teach you everything, and you believe it.... good for you, so why ask?

Hated by Most

 
At 2/7/07 12:02 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I didn't accuse you of being a woman abuser - I said people LIKE you.

It's great that you've found a family to belong to having lost your own. Your story is very sad.

My comments refer to gangs in general, not to particular members. As I said, my dead brother in law was in a gang (not Mob) and he was a fantastic guy from a very large and loving Maori family, as were most of the other gang members I met from his chapter. But that doesn't stop these same guys breaking laws and being totally scary in public with their patches on etc. The thing about gangs is that many members as individuals are neat guys, but put them together as a gang of guys and it's a different, and very scary, story.

I'm not claiming to know how gangs work, I'm just saying that as a woman member of the public, they totally freak me out.

NS

 
At 4/7/07 8:38 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This hated by most persona talks big but is still a victim.

Wants respect but thinks violence and intimidation can supply it.

Blames society for thinking him a no-hoper thug, so becomes a no-hoper thug and proves society right!

Blames Pakeha society for creating ethnic class divisions, while avidly embracing the beads and baubles Pakeha society offers as its rewards, thus perpetuating the society he abhors!

But a seriously hard man on an obscure blog site?

Personally, when one reads the postings of an anonymous blogger that persistently spells out their identity whilst antagonizing other posters, one gets the whiff of a troll, or a wind-up merchant. The fact that bomber allows some of his more offensive postings, one could hazard a guess and say it is an alter ego of bomber himself.

Either way, it is definately not a poster to take seriously.

 
At 4/7/07 8:46 am, Blogger bomber said...

...
The fact that bomber allows some of his more offensive postings, one could hazard a guess and say it is an alter ego of bomber himself.
Now who is the conspiracy theorist - I don't have enough time to write to myself on this site, I have no idea who hated by most is, but I enjoy his brutally frank evaluations of race friction in NZ, but he does tend to spook the more beige members of the blog fraternity.

 
At 4/7/07 5:06 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

sorry anon am I a threat to your educated ego.. disprove any of the thing i said to justify yourself please...

Just a few things; Blames Pakeha society for creating ethnic class divisions, so what will you call it when 2500 soilder envade Parihaka for the sake of the land? was that unity in its finest.... maybe it was a fullment of article 2 of the Treaty of waitangi..

How about the westcoast settlers act anon still enforced today, lock and maori for 2 year, never been repealed, or the tohunga supression Act of 1907 still there today...Stops maori from practicing spiritually and herbal remedies. I know, it was maori that wrote it for maori... and pass these laws.

Piss off and learn something about you own culture. I love it when you wankers open your trap and say I blame pakeha for this and that... shit it wasn't the japanses anon who else could it of been. please anon prove me wrong

by the way, your right I am no one. That I have no expectations of myself. Yet I will fall short of everyone elses, but fucked if I care.

Wants respect but thinks violence and intimidation can supply it. respect is not given, its taken....quote:wayne doyle


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At 6/7/07 10:46 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who the fuck is wayne doyle? That sounds like a cheap mafia movie quote more than anything.


As long as people like you continue to cry and moan and blame you current predicament on events that happened over 100 years ago you will never get any where. It isn't as if Maori were the only people who got a bit screwed over by colonisation, but that was the way of the world then, it happened everywhere, you should thank your lucky stars it wasn't the Spanish who colonised NZ - they would have wiped the Maori out completely.

The difference between people how do well and people like you and people who do well is that they don't constantly live in the past, blaming anything and everything anything but their own failings, never standing on their own two feet, always the crutch of culture or gangs.

Look at how well Maori in Australia do, they have the same colonised past you do, they just happen to put their petty tribal to the side, leave the past in the past and get on with their lives.


"sorry anon am I a threat to your educated ego" no you aren't a threat to anyones ego, don't flatter yourself or assume you know anything about other peoples education H8d. You seem to wear your lack of education as some sort of badge of honour - well done for learning your history mate but prattling on about your and other peoples education all the time dosn't bolster your argument any.

 
At 7/7/07 12:13 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

No one but lil ol me

Who the fuck is wayne doyle? That sounds like a cheap mafia movie quote more than anything.
hes a no one to anon just like me leave an number I make sure you get to met him. he has a business card and all... lasting memories take my word for it, you wont forget.

As long as people like you continue to cry and moan and blame you current predicament on events that happened over 100 years ago you will never get any where. what current predicament anon, I work, pay tax, I own several properties, but thats your fucking claim to frame isn't it, it in the past happen over 100 years ago, yes the fucking foreshore & sea bed that was 100years ago too right? So tell me, why are you crying when maori climb through your window and steal your shit anon .... hmmmm as soon as they leave it is in the past ... forget it, move on...But you wont though now will you, shit no, you'll want your stuff back. So that makes it ok for you but not for Maori?

It isn't as if Maori were the only people who got a bit screwed over by colonisation I dont live anywhere else nor was I raised anywhere else, so dont compare me or us to anyone anon, let debate about what happen here, why do need to look elsewhere to prove colonisation did damage, there was enough done here and it here I moan about. not Aussie.

but that was the way of the world then, it happened everywhere, you should thank your lucky stars it wasn't the Spanish who colonised NZ - they would have wiped the Maori out completely. you need to learn your history a little better the Spanish did try to come here before cook and were attacked and killed, shit it was in a doco the pakeha made for channel 2... why should I have to educate you about your forefathers.

The difference between people how do well and people like you and people who do well is that they don't constantly live in the past, blaming anything and everything anything but their own failings, never standing on their own two feet, always the crutch of culture or gangs. It is a fucking mistake Pakeha to assume you know me, you dont know anything about me, I moan about the enjustices of my anectors you assume i live in the past, assumption is the mother of all fuck ups anon... thats you "a fuck up" I work, I aint on the dole... I own property and items just like you, I play sports, I am a member of a Motorcycle Club anon we are not a gang... cry me a river please.. Hell if it good enough for the NZ police to rape women and watch illegal porn. then why isnt it good for us, to run a muck.

Look at how well Maori in Australia do, they have the same colonised past you do, they just happen to put their petty tribal to the side, leave the past in the past and get on with their lives. I think you have it confused there bud, Maori do well in Aussie yes thats true I know I live there long time... made lots of cash blah blah... awesome. But its the abo's there that where colonised not maori.... now I know you cant sit there and tell me or anyone else that its all fair dinkum mate, The abo's get sweet fuck all in aussie... and its not in the blood past either.

"sorry anon am I a threat to your educated ego" no you aren't a threat to anyones ego, don't flatter yourself or assume you know anything about other peoples education H8d. You seem to wear your lack of education as some sort of badge of honour
Dont flatter myself? i didnt realise that answering your post was flattering myself anon... ok thanks I guess...

well done for learning your history mate but prattling on about your and other peoples education all the time dosn't bolster your argument any. True anon prattling on about mine and other persons education doent bolster my argument, but in like manner anon "You NOT being to disprove that my argument is false, goes to say what anbout you anon"

Hated By Most

 
At 8/7/07 10:00 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Who the fuck is wayne doyle? That sounds like a cheap mafia movie quote more than anything.
Wayne Doyle is like me anon, no one, but Leave a number Anon ill set up a met, with this no one.

As long as people like you continue to cry and moan and blame you current predicament on events that happened over 100 years ago you will never get any where. Explain to me what my current predicament is anon please? I work, I'm not on the dole, I own property and items just like you. But instead of sorting out your fathers past, the best you pricks can say is "FORGET IT, ITS IN THE PAST" Why doesnt that shoe fit when maori steal for you Pakeha, fairs fair isn't it Anon... I mean to say, when they leave your house with your stuff its in the past, "FORGET IT MOVE ON" knowning you wont, why is it the shoe is only for us to wear anon.... But heres better solution "Honor the Treaty of Waitangi, return what your forefathers stole" including the foreshore and seabed... now that wasn't 100 years ago.

It isn't as if Maori were the only people who got a bit screwed over by colonisation, but that was the way of the world then, it happened everywhere, you should thank your lucky stars it wasn't the Spanish who colonised NZ - they would have wiped the Maori out completely. First I dont live anywhere else, I am from this land I dont need to look else where to see what colonisation did, it is engrained on the hills and blood soaked land of Aotearoa. You anon need to check these things out, the Spanish did try to come here before cook, but were attacked and killed.. I believe TV3 run a doco on this, earlier this year. Why dont you all check, it is another one of them "I'm white and your wrong".

The difference between people how do well and people like you and people who do well is that they don't constantly live in the past, blaming anything and everything anything but their own failings, never standing on their own two feet, always the crutch of culture or gangs. I am doing very well anon actually, I think you assume to much, now we all know "assumption is the mother of all fuck ups" always, always be sure. If I blame Pakeha for the Past events on Maori anon, I'll ask,am I wrong? am I making these things up? I no was it the Japanese? no I believe they were colonised Britz, that blanntly disobey the Crown of England wishes to treat maori honorably. The lust for Maori land was to great, thats why they invaded Waikato and Parikaha. Now to the gangs and crutches..blah blah I have said this once to many times "we are not a gang we are a Motorcycle club thats what MC means... shezz

Look at how well Maori in Australia do, they have the same colonised past you do, they just happen to put their petty tribal to the side, leave the past in the past and get on with their lives. Yes maori do well in Aussie anon, one can say better than here, now why is that, first thing that promotes this country, Maori- Maori culture- Maori Art- Maori food... But i think you a bit off in matching the Abo's past to ours, I no you cant tell me the colonisation was awesome for the abo's in Aussie, even with the new bullshit happening now... Last thing, others may choice to forget, I believe mostly because they dont know about there history, example; did you know that in the 1852 consitution that Maori had the right to govern there own affairs separate to Pakeha? did you know the Queen of England by letter patent: Said No laws or bills shall be pasted that breech the Treaty of Waitangi... most maori dont know these things...most Pakeha aswell. But for me personally I wont call the killing of my tupuna petty. Please let me know where you ancestors a buried and ill go piss on them, seeing its a petty thing for you anon.

"sorry anon am I a threat to your educated ego" no you aren't a threat to anyones ego, don't flatter yourself or assume you know anything about other peoples education H8d. You seem to wear your lack of education as some sort of badge of honour
If I wear this lack of education as a badge anon, I seem to have to educate you on your fore-fathers past; Now why is that anon.... If you gonna make point at least check that your right or was it just about forgetting the past, something you can't do if it happen to you?

well done for learning your history mate but prattling on about your and other peoples education all the time dosn't bolster your argument any. One thing was done with my prattling anon, I believe I proved my point, did you prove of justify yours?
I know I dont have as much education as most here, my spelling is fucked for sure. One thing I wanted to know, I have asked; no one has answer... What did my ancestors do to be murdered the way they were?

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