This is unacceptable in a civil country!
I am incan-fucking-descent. The solution corrections are interested in applying to solve the issue of violent prisoners attacking one another is restraining people in shackles, the way animals are transported. This is so demeaning to the prisoners and the guards who will have to shackle them, how in God’s name could you make conditions WORSE as a means to correct violent behaviour. These prisoners are HUMAN BEINGS – shackling them is dehumanizing and a disgraceful solution to the tragedy of Liam’s death. The solution is vans with separated compartments, but that costs 20 million, so guess what cheap arsed, demeaning solutions Corrections will try and get away with – shackling prisoners. What a shameful idea.
Corrections considers prisoner shackles
Prison bosses are considering putting inmates in shackles while they are transported in vans. One News can reveal that prisoners could soon be hand-cuffed and strapped to their waist while being transported. Such shackles are used in the United States and now New Zealand prison bosses are considering introducing them in light of Liam Ashley's brutal murder. "They're actually restrained by way of linking of the arms to the waist areas. So they may be handcuffed and then have a belt round their waist and then the handcuffs are in fact locked on to the belt," Corrections chief executive Barry Matthews says. Current laws prevent using such restraint, so introducing the shackles will not be simple. The shackles are not the only option Corrections is looking at. It has costed an upgrade of its vans at $20 million, including a change to vehicles with compartments for each prisoner.
posted by Bomber @ 7:17 pm
33 comments
33 Comments:
The American dream! its coming to a prison near you.
The attitude of the voting public, expressed through the machinery of government, is still distorted by the superstitious notion of free will and the guilt/blame that comes with it.
That is to say that if someone is arrested, they have chosen to do evil instead of good, are guilty of doing evil, and therefore deserve punishment.
To say that someone deserves punishment is to say that the world would be a better place if they suffer, that it is right and good that they suffer - presumably to a degree proportional to their sin.
At the back of many people's minds, if you tell them that it is inhumane to treat prisoners like cattle, will be this thought:
If they didn't want to be treated badly, they shouldn't have chosen to be bad.
Bomber, you're talking from a much more sane perspective - one that looks at the root causes of unsociable behaviour. But that will make little sense to someone who considers it a principle function of society to even up an invisible score by inflicting suffering on bad people.
person that was some deep shit you just waffled on about there, you wouldn't be the inventor of scrabble by any chance?
Now the job, these prison bosses have to do, is, convince the murders, hardcore gang bangers, Rapist to put them on. should be simple right, what you reckon?
Don’t give a toss how they treat prisoners even if some of them haven’t been convicted.
We should treat them like animal because that what most of them are.
yes yes and anon above is a roll model for modern society.. shit should we just envy that crap...
Shit I thought it was innocent till proven guiltyso by being arrested is guilty?
yet Deano this comment Fear of this stops people like gang membersI will answer it with what Wayne Doyle said to the pigs and press, You only make the strong, stronger and the weak to FUCK OFF and thats gotta be good for my club now how are you going to convince these people to put it on, you are talking about violent offenders right...should make for and interesting day in Pare MaX, I mean shit what do they have to lose?
Of course bad people deserve to be punished. Fear of this stops people like gang members and other scum from taking all your shit.
Deano,
You are saying two different things at once there. Firstly, you are saying that the point of punishment is to dissuade potential offenders. Secondly, you are saying that offenders deserve to be punished.
The first is a practical argument. That's fine. But if someone can show that there are more effective ways of encouraging social behaviour and discouraging antisocial behaviour, then you're obligated to prefer them.
The second is the superstition I mentioned. The hangover from Christianity persists. Or a bit more generous suggestion would be that it's emotive, a kind of communal revenge, an acceptable target for cruelty in a society that otherwise looks down on it. Who knows.
There are plenty of people who would rather a violent offender suffer terribly than be effectively reformed and rehabilitated without punishment, if they were given the choice.
So the question is, Deano, are you saying punishment is useful or are you saying punishment is good because they deserve it? (Or both?) And given the choice above - between a rapist suffering for 20 years (and not being rehabilitated) or spending 20 years being not unpleasantly rehabilitated - which would you choose?
Msth8d, Wayne Doyle, Sam Marsters, Choc and co will just get their prospects to do most of the dirty work as per normal...that article also said "Prison is an occupational hazard and a chance to network" as I recall...Frankly, some of those guys arenever going to change, so in the event they are caught, may as well make them suffer a bit on the way back to Parry doncha reckon?
Uhhhh - why do people engage with this one-eyed hater of all things other than himself.
The thing people hate (a lot of that here) almost more than anything is being ignored.
Life is to short and don't most people have better things to do - including me.
Leave him to play with himself if he wants but why join in.
no I don't reckon, you see I am an Biker too, I know all them boyz you just named, Sam masters I know extremely well. He teaches the Heads; Sir Gee Dorr its a crazy Martial art, some may recal it in the late 80 early 90's this is also the same Masters that was the fight choreographer in once were warriors. He was, also the trainer of Mark Hunt, that went off to win the K1.
But you are right about the prospects, thats the prospects job, things change in time. But how on earth are these prison bosses going to convince, Wayne Doyle, Sam Marsters, Choc, Stretch and co.. to put these things on?
Uhhhh - why do people engage with this one-eyed hater of all things other than himself.
Not even an attempt to debate the issue of shackles, just attacking that someone has a different opinion and they are unable to combat it - how very provincial of you. 8000 hits a month can't be too bad anon!
Probably they won't have to as by in large, those guys are a little to smart to get caught, these days...plus like I say, prospects do most of the dirty stuff...But every now and again you'll get one who loses the plot...Terry McFarlane being the latest example...chopping a guys finger off (Well technically he only sharpened the knife then made the guy hold it over his own finger for the prospect to hit with a hammer) but yeah, I think the cops would probably have no problem getting someone like that to put the shackles on...there are lots of ways to subdue someone, no matter how 'hard' they are next to the average guy in the street...
And yeah I saw Sam out the other week with the usual suspects, Suttie, Billie etc after the boxing out East...sounded like a good night by all accounts...
Also, msth8d if you are interested, you should check out www.reload.org.nz, Stephen Langdon, "Personal Work" Ffor some interesting photos...
"So the question is, Deano, are you saying punishment is useful or are you saying punishment is good because they deserve it? (Or both?) And given the choice above - between a rapist suffering for 20 years (and not being rehabilitated) or spending 20 years being not unpleasantly rehabilitated - which would you choose?"
Ever since my elderly grandmother was raped, I would actually prefer the latter. If you rape an old woman you lose your priveleges to a 'pleasant' life in my book.
And I would never let the c*nt out of prison either.
He should never be put in shackles though aye Deano?
I mean as Boomer says - 'These prisoners are HUMAN BEINGS – shackling them is dehumanizing....'
Just because he raped an elderly woman doesn't mean he gives up all his rights does it? How dare the powers that be even think of shackling someone who may, in the future be rehabilitated into a good and productive socialist. All that rape stuff is in the past and his upbringing wasn't the best and well, he's downtrodden by the colonial powers isn't he? Poor guy, I'm starting to feel sorry for him.
/removes tongue from cheek/
Maybe you could arrange a meeting for Boomer so he can actually see the other side of the coin. His complete lack of understanding of this situation (and many others like it) doesn't suprise me, but yet again I'm left to ponder the cloistered enviroment he must have been brought up and educated in. The ignorance is astonishing.
And Boomer before you go back to your (very tired) argument about how -
'Not even an attempt to debate the issue of shackles, just attacking that someone has a different opinion and they are unable to combat it - how very provincial of you.' maybe you could reflect on your own position.
Its not about your 8000 hits a month, its about a boy/man losing his life cause some fucken P head is having a bad day.
Also you said - 'how in God’s name'-
Do you believe in God Boomer? Seems a little squew wiff with your very obvious political leanings. However, I can the see the confusion in most things you write so again I would not be at all suprised to learn that you are a closet Catholic or somesuch and have a little voltive shrine hidden away under your porno mags and whatever other horrible secrets you keep in your wardrobe.
xxx
AB
very nice Duncan McFarlane much appreicated, nice pics
...
AB - as usual you have nothing to add to this debate - how many times have you been to a prison AB? I have been many times, I know full well the reality on the ground, you on the other hand have never been AB yet pretend to know the reality. Shackling human beings in this manner only makes the conditions in prison worse, especially when this is the so called 'solution' to viloent killings when seperated prison vans will solve the problem. Allowing people to be trated in this condition says more about your dark little needs AB than they do about mine. Grow up
Ever since my elderly grandmother was raped, I would actually prefer the latter. If you rape an old woman you lose your priveleges to a 'pleasant' life in my book. And I would never let the c*nt out of prison either.
You want revenge. Understandable on a personal level, but not the kind of thing on which a civil society's processes should be based. If an alternative to revenge makes it less likely women get raped in the future, society must prefer that, even if you personally would not.
For someone to want to rape an elderly woman (or any woman), they must be sick in the head. If past generations had paid more attention to this simple observation, it's likely we would have two things:
1. Less punishment in the past.
2. Less rape now.
Now, consider AB's series of almost-points:
/removes tongue from cheek/
I'm not sure that's what you were removing from where.
Its not about your 8000 hits a month, its about a boy/man losing his life cause some fucken P head is having a bad day.
Interestingly, AB, you're right. It is about someone losing their life because some fucken P head is having a bad day. It's about preventing it in future by preventing P heads and, where possible, bad days. Not by adding to the violence after the fact because it gives us a bit of a semi.
Also you said - 'how in God’s name'- Do you believe in God Boomer? Seems a little squew wiff with your very obvious political leanings.
Strange notion, considering Jesus' instruction to turn the other cheek, and St Augustine's observation: "There, but for the grace of God, go I." It can't really be put better than that. "If I'd lived his life, I'd act the same." Notice the idea of it being "the grace of God" that made the difference - something outside of his control.
$20 million or prisoners shackled...sure I know whta I'd prefer in a perfect world...but in a middle income nation needs must imho
really, who gives a shit if they are shackled?? bomber, always so quick to stand up for the rights of these poor misguided tragic beings of society. is it going to stop them beating each other inside? probably. matter sorted. and you sure as hell can guarantee it becomes more of a deterrent to going back inside. "they have rights"...so do all their victims.
Maybe they've never been treated as people before in their life. Who knows?
It's a pity that it was Churchill who said a society can be judged on how it treats its prisoners.
Though given the alternatives at the time, his point was particularly cogent.
Uhh person unknowen - maybe its just because you are so much smarter than me but.... I have no fucken idea what your comment is trying to get across. Could you sit down, take a few deep breaths and try to write it again in a lucid manner, please?.
Boomer - What no welcome back? I go away for three weeks and you don't even seem to have missed me.I'm hurt.
So Boomer you've BEEN in prison or you've visited prison 'many' times?
Ever been in a Prison Van?
According to your logic if you haven't done either of those things you know nothing of the reality of the situation and you need to grow up.
Hmmm..... Is that really all the argument a university education buys you these days?. Hope you've got your student loan under control with those critical facilities.
I would rather the $20 Mil was spent on helping victims of crime get their lives back together than fibreglass inners for prison vans. Don't know bout you Boomer but I think anyone who rapes an elderly woman, for instance, has given up their human rights for a very long time.
The humilation of shackles sounds like another good way to get that across IMO.
AB
AB,
If you were given a choice between a rapist getting 20 years of suffering in prison and coming out still a rapist, or getting 20 years of not unpleasant rehabilitation in prison and coming out not a rapist, which would you prefer?
(Person Unknown)
PS.
Boomer is clearly one of the hottest X-Men (well, X-Force).
Boom Boom
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Have a fight you dumbass cunts.
Hiene, fuck off and have a root...tight ass biatch
Hey spinner, didn't you waffle your Big mouth off to me about, once in your old life, as the HEADHUNTERS bummboy push drugs and lets not forget about the soild, buckshot, soild, buckshot shotgun.. I still crack up at that shit; yet you stand in amongst the self righteous pussnuts here, to justify turning the system into a mirror image of the United States. Like that system works doesn't it?
Dont half you pricks realise that they get out, if there treated like dogs, then that how they will behave on release. Maybe Heine will be the next victum? they could just want to show Heine how lowlife they can be.
No one is saying, that violent offenders shouldn't be locked up, to protect you bitches. If your going to force something on them, force rehab and education on them.
But Spinner, I am suprised didn't you tell all your supportive asshole lickers about your hard hard past. Are you afraid the angry Mob might see you for what you truely are; a bullshiter of sorts, the spoon in the pot of BULLSHIT. I think one blogger, called it Absolute Bullshit.. quite a fitting name I think.
But wouldn't you just fit into that category too, scum of society. Me, I like it, the 1%, I have never hidden that fact here.
But you try to come off as Mr clean, appathetic. But then again you could just been SPINNING SHIT like you always do.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
...
Now now AB, please, I've asked you in the past not to mpost abusive comments here and just use that amazing intellect of yours to focus on the issues, being abusive will have your posts cut, simple as that. Oh and yes I have been in a police van, you've never been to prison yet pretend to be an expert. You whined on for a paragraph about me not responding to you on a point you were wrong about. Take a deep breath and repost without the abuse, real simple.
Enough of this politically correct nonsense about people "deserving" what they get. What does "deserving" even mean? And do you really prefer people getting what they "deserve" to treatment of people that reduces crime over the long term? Do you really get such a kick out of the idea of criminals suffering that you'd rather that than reducing crime?
Ryan Sproull, sweet mate, you should run for PM, it that sort of mentality that we need, not clowns that speed to the airport just to get to a rugby game.
useless dopey drop kick head hunters.doyle is a overrated rapist, murderer, who makes the parole board look like a joke.i thought lifers can not join gangs while on parole let alone run the bloody thing.lock them all up. i would not trust doyle,choc, hines and all their other ilk even my life depened on it.
Post a Comment
<< Home