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Saturday, September 23, 2006

Lynch Mob rural justice


Disturbing news that local NZ residents took things into their own hands this week after Ngawi locals attacked three teenagers accused of stealing, the whole thing sounds a bit dueling banjos if you ask me.

A source, who declined to be named, told the Times-Age the car driven by the teenagers had been fired upon twice by a shotgun at a road block residents had created using a bulldozer and another vehicle.

Shotgun pellets struck the fleeing car in the boot and sparks erupted from a rear tyre, but the vehicle breached the blockade and carried on travelling.

Armed residents chased the teenagers in another vehicle, the source said, ramming the fleeing car and firing several more shots at it during a short-lived and violent pursuit.

"It's disturbing to think this was done, really shocking. They could have been killed. Especially when they were being rammed and shot at while both cars are bouncing along and moving at speed."

The trio allegedly abandoned the vehicle soon afterward and hid in scrub on a nearby hillside before police arrived.

Some of the residents climbed the hill above two of the teenagers and "rolled boulders down" and pelted them with rocks to force them out of hiding, the source said. One of the teenagers was struck by a boulder and injured, he said.

60 Comments:

At 23/9/06 6:47 pm, Anonymous Tim S said...

At least they'll think twice about trying to rob people again. Spare a thought for people ou in the rural community who are often miles away from police asistance and have no one to look to but themselves and their neighbours for protection.

 
At 23/9/06 7:41 pm, Anonymous deano said...

I agree with Tim S- and no surprise that you would take the side of the offenders Bomber, like you always do.

 
At 23/9/06 8:17 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

teen violence, theft, irresponsible driving, gangs etc is a plague on nz society. this plague is a community problem. whilst i cannot agree with the level of violence these "adults" have used to curb these teens, i do understand the frustration that has lead to this situation. it is a community problem that needs a well thought out and implemented community response. i live around naenae. we have it [teen problems] in spades.

 
At 24/9/06 2:18 am, Blogger Cactus Kate said...

Bomber

You are so soft on crime you resemble a container of jello.

What are the residents going to do in rural NZ, call the bloody police?

This story is quite inspirational. Takes Neighbourhood watch and community caring to a new necessary level.

The right to defend one's own property should be paramount, especially where the State is unavailable due to lack of interest.

 
At 24/9/06 3:59 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

this kind of thing shouldn't be condoned. shooting at someone because you THINK they stole from you? shit a brick, that's crazy! the problem with this is that justice isn't being carried out with proper process. the idea would be to make a citizen's arrest and take action from there, not shoot first ask questions later.
I agree with bomber that it's disturbing. because with the nature of law, if we validate it somewhere we validate it everywhere. and this behaviour doesn't make for a particularly inspiring society to be part of.

—Stu McGregor

 
At 24/9/06 7:09 am, Anonymous jack said...

I'm in two minds over this; vigilante mobs are notorious for punishing innocent people but then again young shits who prowl rural areas nicking stuff deserve a good thrashing. I have to agree with Tim S when he said said...
"At least they'll think twice about trying to rob people again."

Lets just hope that the attacked persons were actually up to no good and that the attackers had solid reasons for running amok.

Be interestesting to see how this one pans out.

 
At 24/9/06 7:41 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hmmmm can anyone say that these teens actually did the crime or were they only suppected of stealing in that area.

Can someone here say for sure it was them? No well could of been someone else for all we know, yet I guess nothing will happen to these "adults" for discharging a firearm with intent to cause GBH I mean most of you all waffle on about the law so much sure you support that fact these "adults" broke the Law and should be changed.

I guess that why it is said in the bill of rights, that we are all innocent until proven guilty and that everyone has the right to a fair trial.

I have someone nicking petrol from my car, I am a gun collectior, would I be justified if I killed or crippled this person, for stealing $20 of petrol?

 
At 24/9/06 8:59 am, Anonymous jack said...

That's right Anonymous throw the baby out with the bath water.
Stand idly by waiting for mr plod to turn up and let chummie make off with your hard earned. If these hooded numbskulls got a bit of their own medicine now and again they might just think twice about ripping people off.

 
At 24/9/06 9:45 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jack show me the hard fuckn proof that these teens did it....
show it to me come on, can anyone else can prove it?

NO? you cant? can anyone that blogs here prove that these teens are the ones......

So why should I agree with these ADULTS, on there rampage, do the people in the city chase supects in cars shooting at them. Is this countries laws only for the ones that started it?

Proscute the whole fucking lot that where involved and make them accountable for there actions.

These where ADULTS maybe they should of let there KIDS deal with it.

 
At 24/9/06 9:47 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Proscute the whole fucking lot that where involved and make them accountable for there actions.

totally agree

 
At 24/9/06 11:06 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

'I agree with Tim S- and no surprise that you would take the side of the offenders Bomber, like you always do.'

its gotta be said, deano. you're a bit of a fucking dick, really. If you have nothing constructive to add, why dont you go and molest people on a blog you actually agree with, instead of trying to throw a spanner in here simply for the sake of it. If you really thought about the implications of this, you wouldnt have been so rash. And the lame-ass snipes at the author are not just fucking pathetic, they are also irrelevant.

 
At 24/9/06 12:06 pm, Blogger ¤°Z°¤-Luke-¤°Z°¤° said...

finally someone makes a stand to the idiots who post!

ohk, i would maybe stone the guys at most...but shooting at them (teenagers) and rolling boulders down a hill to obviously crush them...are they fucking hillbillys or something. christ dont these people think of consequences it could have for them if they killed one of these teens.

 
At 24/9/06 12:10 pm, Blogger JamesP said...

The irony of complaining about lame ass snipes when you've just called Deano a fucking dick is too much. Would you be Helen Clark by any chance?

A lot of people here do agree with deano's sentiments. Just look at the other comments. This isn't Bomber's blog remember, it's Tim's. While I'm greatfull for Bomber taking the time to post Tim's prison blog it's clear that I'm not the only one who disagrees with his other offerings.

Oh and I highly doubt anyone here is advocating chasing people about in cars with shotguns. The problems are the lack of sympathy for the victims of crime (Do you think the locals would be this worked up if there hadn't been recent thefts?), the twisting of the legal presumption of innocence into actual innocence, and the anti rural / intellectual snobbery of the duelling banjos remark. Having read a lot of Bomber's stuff recently I don't think pointing out the one sidedness of his stories on crime, police, USA etc. is a snipe. It's a fair observation of his writing style / ideology. And IMO it's one of the main reasons he's much less interesting to read than Tim.

 
At 24/9/06 12:20 pm, Anonymous jack said...

"Jack show me the hard fuckn proof that these teens did it....
show it to me come on, can anyone else can prove it?"

No Anonymous I can't prove it as I wasn't there but I dare say the discovery of several burglarized Ngawi houses and the "teens" car load of stolen booty on its way to 'Stash Converters' would have tipped off the locals.

 
At 24/9/06 1:47 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well said Jamesp - Boomers sycophantic followers may well wish this was all just a happy little circle jerk for their stunted views of the world but they are wrong.

Having lived long term in a country situation where the closest agents of the law were over an hour away I can fully commiserate with people getting so pissed of with theft that they take the law into their own hands. Happens all the time in country areas - mostly though the guilty parties just take their medicine and no police are involved.
Course, these days when the crims are the victims - according to Boomer et al - they go running to the cops crying.

Fellas - if you rip people off - you get what you get - try and be a little manly about it will ya?.

AB

 
At 24/9/06 1:58 pm, Anonymous deano said...

Heh- again criticised by some random 'anon'- it's getting to be a bit of a theme- and as you can see, many share my views. No-one is saying trying to kill the teens with shotguns is an acceptable response, but standing up to criminals is. Many NZers have had a gutsfull.

And as for 'lame snipes' at Bomber, well, when I first read this story in the NZ Herald, I thought 'I wonder if Bomber will post this story and vent his moral outrage?' You can read the guy like a book. The whole 'Is Four Years for Brutally Dropping a Rock onto Some Poor Bastard's Head and Savagely Killing Him?' did it for me.

 
At 24/9/06 2:07 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

good job. sure shooting is a bit over the top but its simple really : commit crme and take whatver is handed to you and don't complain. if you hadnt put yourself in that position in the first place, you wont get hounded. well done to the community for putting a clear message across.

 
At 24/9/06 2:27 pm, Anonymous jack said...

"if you hadnt put yourself in that position in the first place, you wont get hounded."

That's not altogether true Anonymous, sometimes the posse gets the wrong end of the stick and innocents suffer. Take the case of the Paediatrician who was mistakenly identified as a paedophile by an illiterate mob.
These roosters however were caught red handed and were delt to by the outraged locals when they tried to make their escape.

 
At 24/9/06 2:30 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ok jack..generally speaking, but most of the bloody time.

 
At 24/9/06 4:12 pm, Blogger bomber said...

...
Wow – I go out to watch a movie and everyone starts slashing each other up – anon, thank you so much for jumping to my defense, but I really don’t take too many things Deano says to heart, and the reason why I like this site is because it isn’t just one group of people who agree with each other (or jerk circle as the bewilderingly crass AB calls it), it’s a site where there is a lot of debate between people who often think the other is off the fucking planet at times. I disagree with a lot of the crazy shit Deano has to say, but I respect that he has the balls to put his name to his posts and he speaks his mind.

That said….

I’ve read what some have had to say (jamesp just made rationalization of back peddling an art form) and some of the usual suspects are here jumping up and down about the rights of those who had their stuff stolen and the insecurity of having the Police live far away from you. As someone who grew up in a rural area I can sympathise with a lot of those concerns. I remember when we moved to the suburbs and I was living with my parents, a fight broke out just after midnight on our street. A local kid had been caught stealing petrol at a party down the road, and the entire party came out after him, 30 people on 1. They beat him to a bloody pulp on the road, and could have possibly really hurt him if my parents and I hadn’t run onto the road outside our house and got in between them and formed a circle around this poor dumb terrified kid.

I remember the look in the eyes of that mob, the absolute ultimate in selfish action by surrendering your individuality to a lynch mob to justify your violence. It is a disgusting thing to witness, the very nemesis of reason. I heard many of your points shouted into my face that night, that to let this little thief get away with stealing was shameful, that they had to take things into their own hands and we should ‘fuck off’ to let them finish the job. Those points didn’t convince me on that night and none of yours do now.

These dumb kids were shot at, driven off the road, and when they were cornered, the locals started rolling boulders onto them. AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE?

Deano says ‘I wonder if Bomber will vent moral outrage at this’ – and he’s half right. I did write it, but the moral outrage isn’t really vented at the frightened and angry local residents who took things into their own hands, I suppose my moral venting is actually much more directed at many of the voices here who have tried to rationalise and justify this despicable behaviour. There is no ‘win’ in any of this other than to say – look what we become when we can’t talk to one another – is this social behaviour any better than the street gangs in South Auckland? And is this situation made better or worse by trying to defend the actions of these stupid, angry locals? Were the locals scared? Were they angry? Did they feel frsutrated at the Police not immediatly there? Yes to all those things DOES ANY OF THAT POSSIBLY JUSTIFY shooting at kids, ramming their car off the road and then pushing fucking boulders onto them? Are you for fucking reaf? The locals stepped WELL OVER the mark - and need to be prosecuted to the full letter of the law. I wouldn't for one second wish to see some sort of prison term handed out - but certainly a period of suspended sentence to let the community know they stepped well over their legal rights, and if it were to ever happen again, then they would face jail time. For gods sake everyone, these dumb angry locals could be facing manslaughter charges if they had accidentaly killed these dumb kids.

The problem is that some of the posts here show no compassion whatsoever, these dumb kids didn’t deserve to be treated like this and there is no justification for the locals reactions – there are reasons the locals acted the way they did, but those aren’t justifications for their actions. I understand why the locals acted the way they did, they were angry and frightened in the heat of the moment – but as for the rest of you – what the fuck is your excuse for that lack of compassion?

I get the ugly feeling that some of you would just keep kicking the person you were fighting well after that person has fallen over. I’m the kinda guy who would step in and say, “Enough, leave him alone”.

 
At 24/9/06 5:29 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

boomer, i think if you read this blog most of the posts say 'yes, they stepped over the mark shooting at them'etc etc...but there has to be something said for sending a clear message to these pieces of shit that steal others property:if you do this sort of thing then this is the sort of response you will get. then hopefully these fucks will desist from such behaviour for fear of being captured by the police or the victims. oh, and why should any of us have compassion for the little crims???

 
At 24/9/06 7:21 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

why do you think thes crims should give a shit about change, when there faced with pricks like above?

I guess now most crims will carry guns too.

some people in this country are fucking pathetic

 
At 24/9/06 7:25 pm, Anonymous jack said...

"The source said that after breaking cover the pair were beaten and while being led handcuffed down the hill, one was pushed and fell some distance to the bottom."

Looks like some cops might be culpable here too.

Bad business. lol

 
At 24/9/06 7:38 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

well lets get the cops to investergate the cops.

 
At 24/9/06 7:46 pm, Blogger snigie said...

Summary justice at Kohumaru
13th July 2006

Two men who allegedly took the law into their own hands to deal with ‘hoons’ at Kohumaru on Sunday afternoon face criminal charges, including one count of unlawfully discharging a firearm after a .22 rifle was reportedly used disable the victim’s vehicle.
According to police the first offender confronted the 18-year-old complainant, one of two drivers (both with passengers) who had been performing ‘wheelies’ on the intersection of Kohumaru and Fern Flat roads. He pursued the victim’s vehicle, ramming it from behind and pushing it off the road, then punched the victim some seven to ten times and tried to pull him out of the car.
The teenager and his passenger ran off across farm land.
The second man who was charged allegedly fired several .22 rounds into the car’s radiator as the complainant and his passenger were trying to get it started. Four firearms were subsequently found at the man’s home, and seized, while he was charged with unlawfully discharging a firearm. The first offender was charged with two counts of assault, one of threatening to kill and one of reckless driving.
It wasn’t clear yesterday whether the victim would face charges related to his driving prior to the incident.

This was my cousin who did the shooting.

 
At 24/9/06 7:55 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. So it goes. Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction.... The chain reaction of evil — hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars — must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation."

 
At 24/9/06 8:30 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gosh bomber you are soooo gooood, I am not fit to breath the same air as one so great and from such a wonderful family.

If only people like you (and your woderful parents) helped victims now and then maybe we wouldn't be quite so bitter and depressed.

 
At 24/9/06 8:34 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Boomer - I'll save my compassion for people who deserve it.

Shane - Those are lovely sentiments. You just missed one thing - we are humans - war(violence) is what we do - its hardwired into us - you can't stop it - no one can - its us. We may have periods of peace but it shouldn't be called 'peace' it should be called 'between wars'. I know that is a hard way to look at it but it is true. Any pacifist movement in the history of man has eventually either been annihilated or forced to fight against the aggressors.
Giving peace a chance etc are nice sentiments but I'm fairly sure that if you saw your wife and children executed in front of you or your parents blown up by a sucide bomber you would be happy to be dehumanised and go out there kill some - gook/commie/british/american/Islamic/add your perceived enemy here/- arse.

ITS WHAT WE DO.

AB

 
At 24/9/06 8:50 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

yeah i can see what you're saying. as "al gore" said. "as long as the salaries of those who have power depend on the status quo, meaningful change is not an option." we do however, have a choice. sure, if i am attacked i might defend myself if i am not given an option. but i know the truth.

 
At 24/9/06 10:36 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

fuck I think its lesson from the inventor of scramble? and the mega spinner AB.

sif I would take the advise of a SPINNER, yet the inventor of scramble, makes sense.

 
At 24/9/06 11:04 pm, Blogger CrImS said...

snigie said...
Summary justice at Kohumaru
13th July 2006
This was my cousin who did the shooting.


2 questions come to mind.

1) Why was your cousin driving around with .22?

2) What exactly did these hoons do to be set upon by your cousin and his mate.

My opinion is I hope you cousin and his mate get proscuted according to the law, there both deserve everything they get.

 
At 25/9/06 6:06 am, Anonymous stinky said...

Bomber perhaps you should save your compassion (a word you bandy around far to often) for those that deserve it,rather than those who deliberately go out to steal, cheat and rob.

And no, Im not justifying the locals reaction to this. Understandable, perhaps, justifiable, no.

 
At 25/9/06 8:20 am, Blogger snigie said...

They were hooning around with the .22 for the purpose of shooting the guys car with! The kids were doing burnouts, but when I checked on the map where they were doing them, it was miles from my cousins house, right out in the middle of nowhere where there are no houses! Country people are like people in jail, they have nothing to do and get excited at the smallest thing. Also country people feel that the law dosnt apply to them.

 
At 25/9/06 9:30 am, Blogger andrew said...

They were hooning around with the .22 for the purpose of shooting the guys car with!


What kind of southern-hick-Alabama-lynch-mob mentality is that? Fuck charging them with misuse of a firearm... charge the arseholes with attempted murder.

Who lets these yokels breed?

 
At 25/9/06 9:31 am, Anonymous Tim S said...

Snigie et al, remember Paul McIntyre?

http://www.country-wide.co.nz/article/3345.html

Have a think about situations faced by people like him before you start making smug and patronising remarks about "country people" who "have nothing to do and get excited at the smallest thing". What exactly would you do in a situation like this?

 
At 25/9/06 4:47 pm, Blogger bomber said...

...
Tim S - we wouldn't make snide comments if rural folk didn't shoot at kids, drive them off the road and roll boulders onto them - and Stinky - my compassion is with the guy getting beaten up by a mob - where is yours?

 
At 25/9/06 5:22 pm, Anonymous deano said...

It appears Stinky's compassion is with the victims of crime, not the criminals who sparked the whole situation.

 
At 25/9/06 6:22 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

bomber said...

"Tim S - we wouldn't make snide comments if rural folk didn't shoot at kids, drive them off the road and roll boulders onto them..."

And that would make you, Bomber, a bigot.
Exactly the type of person you lambast on this blog.
Not all Maori beat their children...and...
Not all rural folk shoot at kids...
Get it.
If you are claiming the high moral ground best not be discriminatory, it debases your argument.

 
At 25/9/06 6:56 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do tell us more about your good works Bomber. Actually not so much 'works' as talk perhaps.

I have known people who keep things quiet, but then self-effacing modesty is not really your thing is it.

 
At 25/9/06 7:12 pm, Anonymous stinky said...

Bomber, you can hardly expect compassion if you go out to pillage, steal or rob others and comes a gutser.

Wonder what the moral of the story could be....

 
At 25/9/06 8:03 pm, Blogger snigie said...

What exactly would i do?! Maybe not shoot a bunch of 16 years olds in a car and punch them for doing burnouts in the middle of nowhere!

The country farmer went through all that drama because he used a gun unlawfully. What gives them the right to blast off at random but not the poor city folk? Because their defending their property? Sheyart, if that was the case how many shootings would there be daily down here in south auckland?

Oh yeah and they wernt charged, white people of the middle class dont have problems in court unless it goes against something aunty helen likes, like sedition.

 
At 25/9/06 9:22 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can someone sumerise the outcome of injuries - if any.

Anyone hospitalised, injured on either side or was it just a lot of noise and show.

 
At 25/9/06 10:42 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

boomer, after visiting this site for about 2 months now it has become very clear that you have far too much 'compassion' for all the wrong people. all the people who steal, rob, rape, murder, commit all the crimes seem to have a special place in your little wee heart. why is that? why cant you accept things at face value, look at what lead to that situation and say "if that prick hadnt done that, they wouldnt be in this predicament now"? you seem obsessed with looking at the offender as the real victim and in turn decide that society is to blame. well fuck that. all people have choices. you fuck up, you take responsibility. lets not make excuses for others. yes there will always be good and bad. the bad need to be held accountable and not turned into victims by lefty socialist wanks like you.

 
At 26/9/06 9:39 am, Anonymous Tim S said...

Snigie "white people of the middle class dont have problems in court..." Care to cite some authority for that? Lots of 'white people' are convicted of crimes. Disproportionate number of non-white persons are in jail, because they commit a disproportionate number of serious crimes. End of story.

 
At 26/9/06 11:28 am, Blogger snigie said...

Sure thats easy. A group of maoris shoot a car and try to harm the occupants, they get on the front page of the hearld. My hick cousin does virtually the same thing, only makes the local paper.

 
At 26/9/06 12:05 pm, Anonymous Huia M said...

Question related to the courts, not the newspapers. Again, care to cite some authority?

Paul McIntyre identifies himself as Maori, he was acquitted.

 
At 26/9/06 12:25 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/location/story.cfm?l_id=139&ObjectID=10360780

ummm...

 
At 26/9/06 1:07 pm, Blogger bomber said...

...

"white people of the middle class dont have problems in court..." Care to cite some authority for that? Lots of 'white people' are convicted of crimes. Disproportionate number of non-white persons are in jail, because they commit a disproportionate number of serious crimes. End of story.

Here is the problem with your arguement Tim S - In America cocaine use is widespread amongst white and black communities, Dope is widespread amongst white and black communities, name the drug and it is widespread - yet blacks make up most of the arrests for drugs because the Police target young black men for arrest - your analysis would be fine if there wasn't institutionalised racisim within the Police structures - there is, hence the mistrust of the Police by communities that aren't white.

 
At 26/9/06 2:39 pm, Anonymous GWB said...

Yeah right...their is nothing to prove their is any institutionalised racism in the NZ police, fact is that more non whites commit serious crime...if you want stats, look at the kids who have been murdered by close family this year...thats realism, not racism.

 
At 26/9/06 3:30 pm, Anonymous deano said...

If you beat your baby kids until they die, drop giant rocks on people, cut peoples throats with wine knives, kill an elderly woman just to steal her shitty car, kill someone in a gang fight, perform an armed robbery and try to get your MP uncle to get you off the charge, or beat your 17 year old girlfriend to death with a shotgun, don't go crying racism.

 
At 26/9/06 3:42 pm, Anonymous GWB said...

Yeah but Deano don't you care about the impact of colonialism 166 years ago?

 
At 26/9/06 4:46 pm, Anonymous deano said...

I probably care more about the impact of colonialism than Don Brash does, but it's no excuse for violent crime. Governor Grey did not make the Kahuis kill their kids.d

 
At 26/9/06 5:10 pm, Anonymous Indian Immigrant said...

Personally I couldn't care less about 'the impact of colonialism'. Lots of people are born poor or lose everything in circumstances beyond their control. Continually looking back to some perceived injustice 166 years ago is no way to advance oneself or others.

 
At 27/9/06 9:19 am, Anonymous kmb said...

After reading some of the comments on this story, I can see why NZ has such a high rate of child abuse, wife bashing, and general violence. When is it ever acceptable to use violence to sort out crimes or misdemeanours - or even perceived crimes?
This kind of macho vigilanteism is precisely why we have laws and a justice system.
It's NEVER acceptable to solve problems with violence.

 
At 27/9/06 9:52 am, Anonymous Sam Eagle Chest said...

kmb...one would imagine that nz has high rates of all those things you mention because of a number of factors, not just people looking to stand up for themselves.

Some evidence for your glib analysis, might be useful for you to have any credibility xx

 
At 27/9/06 2:25 pm, Blogger bomber said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 27/9/06 2:26 pm, Blogger bomber said...

..
Hey KMB - thank you for your comment - you are 100% right and that is why Sam 'eagle chest' flexed his muscles there - (the right hate it when you point things like our appalling social stats that out) - in fact one could go as far as to say it is people like Sam who endorse the intense violence and hatred and anger we see in those stats (using the word glib shows your true colors there sam, there's nothing glib in kmb's statement, but your response would fall under that term). We need to move away from the weird violent male macho culture we foster in NZ and looking at how many on this site jumped to support a bunch of locals who went well over the top (shooting, ramming, rolling boulders) shows us how far we have still to come xx

 
At 27/9/06 3:03 pm, Anonymous deano said...

You can be manly, and tough, without being violent or savage. There is nothing wrong with a man being a man, being 'macho'. I like contact sports. I have muscles. I like women. I believe that the genders are different. But I would never attack someone unprovoked, get into gang fights, drop concrete blocks, bash babies, etc. I would defend myself, my loved ones, and my property- depending on circumstances- with all my heart, however. I think maybe this is what sam eagle chest means. It is not some sense of 'machismo' which is at the root of all our violent crime. There are problems with society and problems with certain cultures in particular in this country, and the consequences for violent actions need to be harsher, and we need a stronger police force.

 
At 27/9/06 3:17 pm, Blogger bomber said...

...
Grin - Deano are you sure you are a school teacher? At a military school or something? Look, you are right, there is nothing wrong with being masculine and strong and all those very valid points you make – but bro, we have a real problem with men in this country, and it has nothing to do with physical strength, it has to do with emotional strength. How many times have you had a mate who has spun out from a relationship break up. How do most guys respond emotionally to any situation – with anger. We have been conditioned with the macho culture in NZ that men don’t have an emotional response other than anger – and from that men become basket cases when crises or stress occur in their life. We need to start learning as men that to be whole we have to have an emotional side, that there’s noting ‘unmanly’ in having an emotional side, in fact it is essential to be a balanced human being. If we had the emotional muscle to deal with that stress (and let’s be honest, being a man can be very bloody stressful), then we wouldn’t resort to violence all the time. Woman have strong emotional support networks, guys don’t.

 
At 27/9/06 4:29 pm, Anonymous Semisi H said...

Does the 'strong macho culture' explain the growing number of females being involved in violent assaults such as the homicide in Turangi the other day?

 

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