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Thursday, May 05, 2005

On the language of immigration

Iraqis wanting their Saddam-loving parents admitted as residents, phoney governmentally-people-smuggled Afghan refugee children who then have nine of their family admitted here, sham marriages for residence permits, chaos at the bungling, reactive, hopeless immigration department - the stories come thick and fast. They do not even know how many overstayers there are let alone their names. How long will this continue? My analysis, if musings and anecdotes could be seen as such, points to more deterioration.

I was struck by aHerald article that says the OECD reports we have a generous pension scheme which makes this country a retiree's heaven. So that's why your foreign girlfriend/boyfriend so keen to marry? So they can have their parents retire here. (Some limited first hand knowledge here).

Well I for one do not want more bloody pensioners and their:
Drawing on the NZ superannuation,
Expensive health problems,
Incompatible native prejudices,
Parental control and cultural reinforcement incompatible with intergration, and
Inability to learn our official languages.

We have a serious pension crisis and the government is compounding it by importing these uneconomic and unwanted people whose contribution to this country is to act as cultural and behavioural enforcers for their children who are supposed to be intergrating with us - not marrying each others children off to each other etc. There is no way we would accept these geriatrics if they applied in their own capacity and we should not accept them at all. AT ALL. It is contrary to the interests of the nation. Wonderful for the immigrants - cuts down on air fares to visit. Bad overall.

When you see, as anyone in Auckland can, these fish-out-of-water type grey-haired foreigners, usually in full native regalia and/or badly dressed like they were still in their home environment wandering the streets you know they are not tourists, not working immigrants and not retired long-time citizens - they are here on the family reunification category. They may flash their NZ passports but their English only extends to I am "Kiwi" as the odd report will attest.

If the government/bureaucrats think that providing full facilities and welfare for a would-be immigrant's aged parents is our "edge" in the global immigration market - they are selling us far too short. Where is the quality control?

What relevant value do these elderly immigrants add? Experience of old practices that may not even be suitable in their home country. Religious/cult practices. Enforcement of oppression within the family.

We have an honesty policy where we accept everyone and presume everything is kosher until Winston grandstands. Our system is a crock, a joke and always has been. It was before Mr Peters, during his coalition with National and afterwards. The government must put a stop to this spurious category immediately.

The recent changes to the Citizenship Act is to be welcomed despite being largely cosmetic. 5 years to gain citizenship should be the minimum. I would suggest making it the minimum with the rule being resident in the country for one-fifth of the applicant's life, ie. they must spend the next quarter of their life here to qualify - that would help minimise the oldies who have little chance of successful mergence into society and quickly become a drain.

It is far worse than that, of course. Our despicable, stupid governments allow anyone in the country a couple of years to vote. Citizenship? What's that mean? It ought to mean the exclusive category of people in a nation-state entitled to vote. These elderly people unable to speak our languages have the same vote as everyone else. They could agree with capital punishment, prisoner torture, arranged marriages esp. within families and lowering our standards - and that's your vote cancelled, Jack. The most insulting of all is the election pamphlets in foreign languages... I mean really.

The Act Party, to their great shame, promoted a petition a few years ago calling on the government not to enforce the English language requirements for residency and citizenship! I saw it. There were two - one in Korean and one in Chinese. Foreigners telling us what our policies should be! There were thousands of signatures, half of them (and their details) not in English. Could you imagine that occuring in any other country that is not hell-bent on their own destruction?! Would you go to China or Korea and then start petitioning the government to change the rules so you never had to speak their native/official language?! It would be a gross insult to your host. No matter, Act thought it would be a winner. Disgusting. They, and the people who signed it, should be ashamed. A feeling, perhaps, they do not have in their cultural repertiore.

Take Kenneth Wang, Act's new MP. I had a chat to him once and found it very difficult to understand him. So do the MPs in the House and everyone else. He's only been here 15 years but you know that he is still translating everything to and from Chinese in his head by the way he pauses constantly. Shocking as Pansy Wong is with her mutilation of the language at least she is obviously conversent with it. Asians may find English (and Maori for that matter) more difficult than other immigrants because they are different in grammar, script etc. but that in no way means the bar should be lowered just to accommodate them. The law says that candidates for citizenship need to be able to understand the English language. Enforcement and strengthening of this is crucially important. If you can't think in someone else's language how can you truly understand them. If you are going to live with someone should you not understand them?

I don't think we really understand that the Chinese have such a huge, multi-millenial cultural and imperial history and massive population that perhaps their attitude to learning anyone else's language is done under much sufferance. I get that impression. Do you bother to pronounce Maori names correctly? No? Not really? Don't care? Not important? Yeah, that's right - why should the Chinese bother to speak English at all!

Half the shops on Dominion Rd seem to have Chinese language signs, some of them exclusively so. Some even sport the Chinese communist flag. There is a diary in Mt Albert (there may be more) that has a massive Korean sign and language everywhere - and yet there is no Korean population there (...yet). So why? If you ask yourself "What would I do?" I think most non-immigrant New Zealanders would say they would respect the locals, not act to exclude them. If a sign is not in English then they do not want you in there - simple as that. Do we want immigrant communities to grow separate from us? - because that is what they are doing under our non-existent integration practices.

If you let in a Chinese (for example) who cannot speak English who will they:
Hire as an employee?
Vote for?
Trade with?
Socialise with?
Complain to?
It's not as if they have an option is it.

I used to think Auckland was lucky that we had not developed that "Chinatown" thing many cities have where an ethnic community is effectively ghettoised. And then I realised that the whole of Auckland was becoming a "Chinatown." North Shore, being perhaps a "Little Korea." One single shop in a shopping centre festooned with Chinese symbols adds colour, certainly, and it also is an immediate notification that people who cannot communicate with the locals have moved in - people who are not locals and have no intention of becoming locals to be more accurate. I'm sure my thinking is far more charitable than the thoughts of other peoples subject to massive immigrant pressure.

It was on a summer day in the year 2000, and I was standing on the corner of Victoria and Queen Streets that I realised for the first time that there was more of "them" than there was of "us." Just looking around there were noticeably more Asian faces than non-Asian. It was not as though I had not noticed before but that the make-up of Auckland's main street had just tipped with all the students coming on line. Other streets have changed too; entire neighbourhoods: Sandringham is now more like Sandribad or Sandristan nowadays. I t was about two years ago that I saw my first piece of foreign vandalism too - on a Pt Chev cliff face near the beach, along from what my Dad calls the Piper Rocks. Chinese characters carved in the sandstone. I clenched my teeth and drew a sharp breath. "Ahhh, fuck... here we go."

5% of Auckland's population are foreign students. No, it is not actually a successful export industry as the government wishes. It is a foreigner import cost. We should be running schools in China, not importing their students. We only do so because we are dumb, have no comprehension of adding value and are too ready to rely permanently on something that should only ever be a temporary solution. The government becomes pathologically and economically beholden and dependent on these unsustainable and tetchy human markets as they see them only on financial lines without realising, appreciating or being wary of the negative impacts of keeping large amounts of complete foreigners inside the country. If there is a student or immigrant down-turn they will drop their standards to balance the books.

The government loves immigration as a tool of economic growth because that is what the Crown was forced to found the colony for. Forced by foreign land speculators. Maori, the locals, were horrified and quickly threatened by the waves of foreigners and what they were after - their resources. Nothing, I repeat, nothing, has changed. Immigration is the idiot's way to financial prosperity. It increases demand in the economy and increases the capital available to the economy and therefore economic growth occurs and the Finance Minister is happy. Pretty simple. Who cares if they are violent Balkan nationalists/elderly incomprehensible Chinese/marriage-peddling Indians/racist Englishmen/intolerant South Africans/inbreeding Arabs/HIV-ridden Africans/uneducated Islanders/religious nutter Americans/Zionist Jews/fill-in-the-cliché-it's-probably-true generic undesirable foreigner. Send them all in because government doesn't care about society as such or the future harmony and cultural development of the community, all they care about is the GDP stats for the current term.

Many people practice this sort of insanity themselves by taking in home stay borders. But even they are at the discretion of the householders. What would you say if the head tenant of your flat announced that to make ends meet they were going to hire out the spare room to someone who can't speak the flat's language? And then next year the garage, then the porch, the basement, then bring in a caravan... That is what we are doing as a country. Those reasons why people claim they want to come here and the reason that we love this country is largely because it is not over-run. That we can walk down the beach and be all alone. That we can gather enough kai moana for ourselves.

Our current plan is to increase the total population by 10,000 to 50,000 per year forever. The statisticians can make predictions and as many models as they want, the fact is the government has always been in favour of increasing the population and that is what they do. If there is not enough through the birth rate - they import. If people leave the country - they import. They only care about the net figure. If 200,000 left the country this year they will import 210-250,000 next year. You don't think they would? They have to keep their system going. There is no end to it because they are not intelligent enough to work out how to increase our standard of living without importing demand and using the very short-term monetary benefits of immigration.

Our speculative economy, and that is what it is, is based on the biggest pyramid deal ever: the immigration-property/mortgage spiral. If we don't import more people to buy our over-inflated houses then we default on the mortgage. Simple as that. Julius Vogel knew that when he borrowed heavily in the 1870s and put us into debt to foriegners forever. The current government, as all governments, are aware of it but see it as shrewd management. The foreigners keep lending us money (at very high interest) based on the understanding that we will keep the spiral going. There seems to be no alternative plan. Perhaps Pakeha are happy to only think one generation out?

In one hundred years time, carrying on with the current speculative model, will our population be 5 million, 10 million or 20 million? Will there be anything in the sea apart from plastic bottles? Will there ever be a deserted beach? The only people happy with more immigration are the immigrants themselves, and they are growing in number solidly with a framework of lax policies that allow them to import entire extended families. How long will any government be able to resist their voting wedge especially when they do not even need to be a citizen to vote? Will a recognition of "Asian values" be subtle or pronounced? Will we speak English and Maori, or will we let in so many Chinese that a party that wants their votes will make it an official language? We are already half way there.

I don't so much see the river Tiber frothing with much blood as a squat tiolet down which we are flushing our heritage and future.


At 6/5/05 1:08 am, Blogger t selwyn said...

The data I have from the immigration dept: family category total averages about 10,000 for each of the last five years (that means about a quarter of total immigrants every year are "coat-tailers") and the parents category being about 2,000. Hard to believe. Do they all live in Mt Roskill? Then again if you have money (or rather borrow money) you can get in as a business migrant no matter what your age I suspect. And of course overstayers and refugees are not included in that figure.

For those who actually care that arranged marriages, burkah wearing and other abominable practices are condoned in this country I implore you to read this Washington post article about Afghan inbreeding.

At 6/5/05 11:29 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Chinese characters carved in the sandstone."

what did it say?

At 6/5/05 11:47 am, Blogger stephen said...

What relevant value do these elderly immigrants add?

Unpaid childcare for their grandchildren, who do assimilate, while the parents slave away in shitty jobs scorned by the shiftless and lazy native born. And retention of the remittances that would otherwise be sent offshore to support them. It's a net win.

The principle aim of Vogel's borrowing, you will recall, was not to impoverish the nation but to build a fucking railway and the other appurtenances of a then-modern state. Had he not done so you'd be chasing sheep up the overgrazed hills today. Meanwhile, governments since 1984 have practised fiscal discipline to reduce foreign debt as a matter of course; unlike the nativist Muldoon, who racked it up.

As long as we don't manage more than replacement rate for births, we will be living in a stagnant backwater of a pond without immigration. Immigration is what is preventing this country from staying a boring shithole.

I agree, we ought to decide how many people we want in this country, and set a cap, lest we end up like southern England. But we have a long way to go before we get to that stage.

If we don't import more people to buy our over-inflated houses then we default on the mortgage... The foreigners keep lending us money (at very high interest) based on the understanding that we will keep the spiral going.

Er, no. Foreigners keep lending us money because we're prepared to pay that interest and don't seem likely to default. Our houses are over inflated right now because of speculation, pure and simple. The idiots who think that a 4% yield on a rental is a good idea, that leveraging one or two assets to increase the yield is an even better idea, and that they're bound to make more on a capital gain. Boy are they going to be sorry soon. But mugs as they are, no one's forcing them.

One might almost suspect a implication of conspiracy. Bankers. Jews. Vogel. Foreigners. Them. Don't hold out on us man, tell it like it is.

PS: no truly Zionist Jew would emigrate to New Zealand. True Zionists emigrate to Israel. Get your slurs right, boy.

At 6/5/05 12:20 pm, Blogger 'Thought & Humor' said...

You have a riveting web log and undoubtedly
must have atypical & quiescent potential for
your intended readership. May I suggest that
you do everything in your power to honor
your Designer/Architect as well as your audience.
Please remember to never restrict anyone's
opportunities for ascertaining uninterrupted
existence for their quintessence.

There is a time for everything, a season for every
activity under heaven. A time to be born and a time
to die. A time to plant and a time to harvest. A time
to kill and a time to heal. A time to tear down and
a time to rebuild. A time to cry and a time to laugh.
A time to grieve and a time to dance. A time to
scatter stones and a time to gather stones. A time
to embrace and a time to turn away. A time to
search and a time to lose. A time to keep and
a time to throw away. A time to tear and a time
to mend. A time to be quiet and a time to speak
up. A time to love and a time to hate. A time for
war and a time for peace.

Best wishes for continued ascendancy,

'Thought & Humor'
Cyber-Humor & Cyber-Thought
Harvard Humor Club

At 6/5/05 12:22 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So Tim, when are you joining the National Front? You sound like you have imbibed most of their half-witted policies. I'm sure the odious Kyle Chapman would embrace you as a brother based on this odious blog entry which reads as nothing more than xenophobia dressed up as simple minded economics.
Few things are uglier than scared white people blathering on about their heritage. Get a grip man and stop being a 'Little New Zealander'.
Good grief, I feel like I need a shower after reading that vile bilge you spewed forth.

At 6/5/05 12:37 pm, Blogger t selwyn said...

Anon: I'm not sure what they said as I do not know Chinese symbols except for 1, 2 and 3. They did not look Korean and the Japanese would be the last people to vandalise things, so it's safe to assume it was Chinese. It was amongst the usual English scrawlings proclaiming presence and love - I'm not sure which this was. There are probably more now.

Foreign language public signs (be it vandalism, notices or commercial) not only announce the existence of people who are different (ie. non-English speakers) but also that these people do not intend to acquire our local language. Why display to non-tourists in other than the local language?
Do the authorities really think they are helping new people adjust to our country by reinforcing their/our differences?

There are so many Chinese, and Koreans for that matter, presently that they can live their entire lives here without ever having to communicate with a local. Separate newspapers, magazines, TV shows, radio stations, events, bars, banks, restaurants, businesses etc. This is government policy by default.

Apparently the same scenario occurs in some Chinese cities (amongst others) where the foreigners live their own Saudi compound-type existences. I was surprised to see a documentary about some far-flung Chinese outpost near Mongolia and the only foreign sign was an English one for "Police." Why? Isn't it obvious what it is? Stay strong China - don't give into the foreign devils!

How may times have you answered the phone, spoken to someone etc. and they are South African, English, Indian, Chinese, Korean etc. We have a high immigrant population, clearly. Even if we phase out the obviously incompatible and undesirable we are still left with problems: eg. UK and esp. South African managers are totally incompatible with our non-slavery based workforce.

We accept religious teachers as a legitimate occupational category?! Spreading foreign cult ideas in our country is a legitimate job? A Korean pastor who performed an excorcism killed a lady a couple of years ago. Nuns - where do you start? Once again, are these people any assistance to us? Are they helping their fellow countrymen integrate by perpetuating their superstitions and practices? I don't think so.

What sort of allegiences will these foreign speakers have? If China declared war on us (or vice versa) which side would all these "paper Kiwis" (NZ passport-holding foreigners) who can't speak our languages be on? Would they think it's a bad thing that people who are them are invading? Do Jews, even NZ born Jews, have more allegiance to Israel or New Zealand?

And then there is the unwanted intrusion of foreign governments in our domestic affairs because many of their citizens are here eg. India and Fiji. Do we want foreign powers advocating to us on behalf of our own (paper Kiwis)citizens and residents!?

I wouldn't expect Wellington to care about these issues because it is only really Auckland that must cope at the moment. All large, international cities are gateways to immigrants and will have higher foreign-born populations - but the situation is really running away on us.

Case study: Singapore. Once part of Malaya. Large minority of Chinese in Malaya but constituting a majority in Singapore and what happens? They separate. Tensions, persecutions, riots etc. and they separate. Would China be in favour and provide diplomatic pressure and arms running etc. if (in fifty or a hundred years) a large Chinese majority in one small corner of New Zealand wanted to form a separate country because of ethnic tension brought about by them refusing to integrate? By them refusing to accept the standards which we expect from everyone? We are sleep-walking down the beginning of that long path now.

At 6/5/05 1:35 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Christ you're a loathsome little fuck . Best you join the National Front and blog for them,as at least you can spell.

At 6/5/05 1:52 pm, Blogger stephen said...

Do Jews, even NZ born Jews, have more allegiance to Israel or New Zealand?

Don't forget the Catholics! They bear allegiance to a foreign prince, the Pope!

Nuns - where do you start?

No, wait, you didn't.

Are there two T Selwyns? The one who posts on No Right Turn sounds quite sane, usually, whereas you need to start taking the medication again.

At 6/5/05 3:26 pm, Blogger t selwyn said...

Stephen: If you have ever read the Zionist ravings in the NZ Jewish Chronical you will understand why I posed the question.

If you had such strong religious beliefs that you could not even spell the word God without putting it as G-d because the writting of such is blasphemy (as my otherwise sane Jewish flatmate used to do), combined with an ethnic purity belief and destiny for your group to inhabit a land that your G-d gave to you - would you not have a critically compromised national identity and allegiance? If push came to shove which side would you be on. Let's not even go there in the first place.

As my Jewish flatmate said "All Jews are Zionists" - I don't believe her, I think that all Zionists would claim that all Jews are Zionists! Although I am probably overstating what Zionism means to Jews (not exclusive ownership of Israel/Palestine).

What Catholic in NZ would take a bullet for the Pope or all of the cardinals?! What Jew in NZ would take a bullet for the survival of Israel?

Religion should be actively discouraged esp. regards immigration.

The point is valid however that friction develops between groups as ancient antipathy is exported into a new country eg. Irish Catholics v. Protestants here right up until the fifties, Serbs v. Croats in Sydney last week etc.

Your other points:

Grandparents -
"It's a net win"! Free child care! The integration process is impeded by their presence. Elderly have heavy health care requirements. Retain the remittances? They are supposed to be helping us not remitting their wealth overseas, but you can't really stop these things. At least it is probably cheaper to keep them overseas than here - a proper financial breakdown would be interesting.

Crown debt -
Vogel (when he wasn't swanning around the casinos of Europe and submitting outrageous expense claims to parliament) borrowed money for pork-barrel-a-rama at high interest rates, couldn't balance his budget so nationalised all of the Provincial governments and their assets, sold off confiscated land to the massive surge of immigrants and continued with policies to marginalise and break the Maori people, ie. the locals. The debt repayments crippled the country and, added to the rampant corruption of the land speculators/government, led to and then compounded depression in the 1880s and 90s.

Most of the "investments" in rail went directly into the pockets of the speculators and then the farmers destroyed the environment on marginal land to eek out their existence and serve their purpose of displacing the locals. Apalling management all round. Most politicians at the time were up to their eyeballs in debt to the BNZ that they then saved from collapse by the Crown borrowing yet more money to bail them out in the 1890s (You know just like they did in the 1990s!) The wonderful history of our country's grand development from savagery to civilisation is anything but. If you have a differing version of history then do tell!

Vogel's principles (or what you interpret were his principles) and practice are two different things. Muldoon was a very misguided nativist alright and yes, thank heavens our policy is now to at least get all Crown debt denominated in NZ dollars so we have some measure of control.

Stagnant backwater -
Like an island paradise should be perhaps. Immigrants stop us being a "boring shithole"? I agree. Their most important contribution (apart from economically) is their cuisine in my opinion.

Set a cap -
I haven't been to Southern England so I don't know to what you are referring so I am unsure as to whether we have a "long way to go" and where the destination is exactly. The point is if we don't start asking the hard questions now it will severely constrict our options later. Some people are threatened by the question, yet alone any answers!

Numbers are important - but gross not net. We do not have a consensus at the moment as displayed by the invective that this post has raised in some quarters. Even NZ First say that 10,000 is a good number, rather than none AFAIK.

Property speculation -
You present in an argumentative form but you agree with the point made. See it as a systemic foundation of the colony that contnues unabated. The effects price many locals out of the market as the foreigners enter with large amounts of ready cash. At least we haven't got to the stage in Wales and Corsica where the locals fire-bomb baches of wealthy outsiders.

Conspiracy -
No. It is all in the open, every one knows the facts. If you look at these things over time there are trends and developments. Overseas examples are helpful to indicate where things might go and where we should go as you alluded.

Presently -
Our population is very accommodating, tolerant and well behaved compared with other countries. Our good will is the only thing keeping the absorbtion of immigrants stable, but that will not stretch if there is a (perhaps inevitable) economic downturn and the marginalised in society are (inevitably) pitted against each other. No one wants that to happen, but we must pose the questions now so that we may better manage any transitions.

At 6/5/05 4:24 pm, Anonymous A Grant said...

???!!!! I've woken up three days in a row and yelled at Winston's xenophobic comments on the radio, but this rather defies belief... though perhaps it's better you show your true colours (are you really the same T Selwyn?). Is this really in all seriousness? I can't believe it's not, it's so totally skewed.
You need to get out. You need to come to the English as Second Language Home Tutoring training I've been a part of in reason months, and meet the elderly chinese men and women, who've come to New Zealand to love and support, and be loved and supported by, their children, who've come here to make a living. They've all been mislead - the working children can't get jobs purely because their grammatically beautiful english is spoken with an accent. As a result they work long hours in jobs, and for pay, very few kiwis will have a bar of. Grandparents stay at home to look after the kids - right down to dealing with school teachers and doctors - become desperately lonely, and contact ESOL Home Tutoring for free English tuition (from tens of thousands of volunteers around the country). They're warm, generous, desperate to please, delighted when they make themselves understood, thrilled to have contact with a kiwi as welcoming as the increasingly mythical ones they heard about from tourists to our shores. It's only one story... there are many others, and most of them suggest this; the problem is NOT immigrants desperate to assimilate. It's kiwis, convinced we're a special breed, who fail to find the worth in anyone who can't/won't make money (and now I'm not talking just about immigrants) for whatever reason, who have customs outside the social norm (and still, I'm talking about anything from preferred music, to going to an Anglican church, to the much more exotic). People in this country are missing out every time they spurt such completely mindless filth. Sadly, the more they spurt it, the further it spreads.
If you want cultural vandalism, your blog epitomises it just as much as any Chinese [sic] characters on a wall in Mt Albert.

At 6/5/05 6:12 pm, Anonymous an ex-flattie said...

Tim, you fucking nutbag.
I feel depressed reading this paranoid blather. It sounds like the rabid ravings of the sartorially challenged National Front.
Stop sleeping till lunchtime; get out more.
Maybe travel would broaden your mind- I recommend a day-trip to Northcote. There's an excellent Asian foodhall there.

At 6/5/05 6:21 pm, Blogger t selwyn said...

A Grant:

Winston Peters is despicable. His pamphlet last year (?) slandering Asians was a low point and designed to scare and alienate. My comments are designed to provoke a debate that is typically restricted to only two options:

1. Everything on the immigration front is tickety-boo, more the merrier, we're all immigrants anyway, we need more immigrants to lift our standard of living, whether they integrate or not is unimportant, we should tolerate and actively accommodate their languages, culture, behaviour and honour their history, it's good they wear burkahs because they should be strong in their religion, there is so much to learn from them etc.
2. Winston should join with the National Front to personally vet every immigrant to make sure they aren't just pretending to be white, we should have a negative quota and start deporting "wogs", and (the comment from TV news from an elderly Dutch woman outside a NZ First meeting) "The Maoris don't really fit in around here."

Which sane individual's views would actually fit neatly into either of those categories? We may all think "rather a 1 than a 2" but it should not be such a reactive and simplistic discussion. People are quick to judge but who amongst them has no concerns or misgivings about our current policy and the future?

"You need to get out." -
I do get out. Every day I, and probably most people in Auckland at any rate, deal with immigrants with impeccable standards and superb English skills...

"They've all been mislead." -
...who are making contributions regardless of the shitty jobs they are forced to take because the locals have "circled the wagons" to protect their industries/professions. But really, what do you expect? Migrants with experience in big companies overseas with a high degree of specialisation are shit out of luck when they go to Mad Kev's for that mechanics job. Wow, an industrial chemist, eh - the mop's over there, mate.

Our immigration dept. and the agents are shocking. They are peddling false hopes on bogus information? No kidding, that's how Wakefield and the colonial government got Pakeha out here and nothing has changed. My point is that we are committed to making the same mistakes over and over again. If immigrants are too dumb to fly out here and sus it out, speak to their fellow countrymen here, before comitting themselves then do we need people who are that gullible and easily manipulated?

NZ experience is important. And, yes, also a pathetic excuse for racist behaviour. But those South Africans, and to a lesser extent Englishmen, in managerial positions who are utterly unqualified in a local context are causing a lot of misery for local workers. They tend to blame workers for their own faults, bully, intimidate and upset the work practices that are effective.

If you had 60 CVs to get through to make a short list for one job that requires a degree of local knowledge and you have one hour what would you do? Go through every CV for exactly one minute? Or would you automatically biff every CV that indicated they were a foreigner and focus on the local candidates?

"a kiwi as welcoming as the increasingly mythical ones" -
Warmth and generosity is the only thing sustaining the absorbtion as the government programmes seem non-existent. Good on you for helping out. We need a lot more people like you. You seem to be saying that the government is overwhelmed and not coping properly.

You have the time perhaps, others do not. One person turning up you can help, two people you do what you can, but after the third time one's patience wears thin. If you cannot communicate you start to ration your time to those with whom you can converse. Multiply that across the city and we have a problem.

"It's kiwis, convinced we're a special breed" -
And then start to bash the locals/yourself.

"Completely mindless filth..." -
Filth, as in to dare question the prevailing hegemony (if I could call it that) of opinion on immigration?

At 6/5/05 6:32 pm, Blogger t selwyn said...


I'm not paranoid you are all against me! (unfortunately).

The Ponsonby one is better than your one. If only every vendor in the food hall would move one place to the right (or left) they would align themselves with the ethnic food that they are making. Have you noticed that? Chinese in the Kebab shop, Arabs in the Chinese, Indians in the Mexican, etc. I suppose that's fusion?

At 6/5/05 7:33 pm, Blogger stephen said...

Nya ha, the old "I was just trying to provoke debate" line.

Cloaked as they are in xenophobic rhetoric and some fairly nasty innuendo, your alleged discussion points are invisible.

You're like a guy who says: "I'm intelligent and cute, but girls don't notice me. I know! I'll cover myself in shit! Then they'll pay attention!"

And indeed they do. And they say "Look at that guy covered in shit!"

Someone as smart as you should surely know better.

At 6/5/05 11:33 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Crikey, a whole heap of debate here. The 1999 Immigration Amendment Act lifetd the restrictions on chinese students (imposed post 1989 Tianmen Square). Students comeing fromchina went from 1000 (1999) to 50,000 (2003) Whilst a lot of this may have been positive for the economy there does not seem to have been any planning done by either the Minister at the time (Dalziel) or the NZIS.

The refugee and asylum seeker numbers seem to have dropped since this time although for the new New Zealander's sake they may be avoiding chch and the South island as a suitable destination (post some unfortunate experiences with Somali's and local hooligans mid 90s) so perhaps if one is living in Ak it may seem more the population mix is changing rather more than it is overall.

At 7/5/05 3:31 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just wondering if your sole ambition in life is to have your despicably narrow-minded xenophobic views torn to shreds by people with a better grip on immigration policy and economics?I can hardly profess to be an expert myself, but I can say without a doubt that you are a prime candidate for the National Front, if you don't belong already.Keep your poisonous bile to yourself

At 7/5/05 3:31 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just wondering if your sole ambition in life is to have your despicably narrow-minded xenophobic views torn to shreds by people with a better grip on immigration policy and economics?I can hardly profess to be an expert myself, but I can say without a doubt that you are a prime candidate for the National Front, if you don't belong already.Keep your poisonous bile to yourself

At 7/5/05 5:16 am, Blogger t selwyn said...

I draw your attention to my first post which serves as the mission statement:

"The intention is to convey ideas, provoke debate, provide a forum for discussion and irritate people and institutions that deserve to be so disturbed, always with a view to reform and advancement of ourselves, our society, our state, and our world."

Nothing I have done is inconsistent with that agenda.

If you cannot see through the rhetoric and innuendo then more fool you. I see through your rhetoric and innuendo and still I ask where are your points?

Anon (negative):
What barking, ranting, abuse. One even admits "not being an expert myself" but offers their opinion anyway with a NF slur. Notice how they avoid discussion of the issue by attempting to make the rhetorical style or personality the issue. Lift your game.

Despite an ex-flatmate describing me as a "fucking nutbag" (I've had enough of them for that to actually be a reasonable -though highly exaggerated - response) the onus is now on you to demonstrate why you think I'm wrong. No? All I'm seeing is knee jerk, 101 stuff rather than any "torn to shreds" stuff threatened/predicted. A Grant shared personal experiences as did I, and one Anon gave some stats and at least Stephen Judd made an effort before resorting to abuse-by-metaphor.

I guess you are for the status quo then. And like people who think everything is ka pai you don't think you need to defend it either. It just is. It sounds like classic ultra-conservative stuff. Being concerned that large numbers of immigrants might not be compatible with our continued lifestyle and will irrevocably change us is, apparently, "vile." No wonder the madness at the immigration department continues unabated with that sort of attitude so prevalent.

It must be wonderful to sail through life knowing that anyone who challenges your views have arguments too vulgar to respond to with anything but invective.

At 7/5/05 10:36 am, Anonymous A Grant said...

You're quite right. I'm extremely lucky to get out there and work with immigrants, and I've waited about five years to have the time to do it. My point remains. There are stories behind the generalisations you've made. There ARE problems with NZ immigration policy, but dialogue like this, that puts the blame squarely on migrants who don't fit your 'potential ideal NZer mold' are hardly beneficial to debate. There are thousands of stories, and I'm aware that I only presented one. But these people are individuals, not one great inseperable mass. There are reasons migrants come regardless of whether they can work (some which stand up to scrutiny, others more suspect), and in those reasons they're very little different to NZers who head to Australia or Britain without a job to try their luck because pay is better. And yes, I do NZ bash a bit. Not because I think that genuinely kind, thoughtful kiwis exist. They do. A huge number of kiwis show these traits. But there is another side to the story. If you're going to tar one group with the same brush, then expect others to make their point by taking the opposite extreme view. It's debate you wanted, right?


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